Which countries have a reasonable path to citizenship?

[tropicalescape]

Originally Posted by TexasPhil

It's my understanding that Amy us territories pay no income tax. Try Saipan, US Samoa, Palau, etc.

Even puerto Rico.

While crusing in Guam and Saipan I also worked and payed Fed. and GRT taxes...I belive this to be true for all territories whereas in Commenwealth and Federated states it is not ...I think thats correct...DVC

[denverd0n]

Originally Posted by capttman

Hmmmm you can leave the USA and denounce your citizenship but the law ( believe its called the Dingman law) says if you do and assets >250K you will pay a hefty tax penalty..

No, it is assets greater than $2 million. And even then the first $600k (or thereabouts) in gains is exempt from the tax.

[ArtM]

In general, think about your proposition to that country. What will you contribute to their nation as a citizen? What will you be taking from their economy.

In the most basic terms, every country wants responsible citizens who contribute to their overall economy and cultural health. This is the purpose of the various and confusing rules.

Modern civilized countries have advanced health care and/or elderly care systems (e.g. Social Security in the US). These countries want to see that you have contributed to that system, or else will not need to draw from it. This means that you come with plans to live and work and PAY TAXES in the country for many years, or else you come with an independent source of wealth or income.

Less advanced, third world, and island nations have no such thing. In those countries, you contribute or die. They are likely to have few or no admission requirements - although, in those countries, it's not clear why a person would want to have citizenship, which carries no privileges.

This ignores countries whose immigration policies are primarily governed by suspicion, superstition, or racism, of which there are still many in the world.

[jago25_98]

http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...p-84367-6.html


"I've heard Somalian citizenship is real easy to get."
Sarcasm? Could be a handy second passport for exiting your birth country.

I view countries and citizenship as a market to go shopping in, just with a lot of tiresome political BS inbetween. I find the whole politics very boring and tiresome, especially as there is no place now that feels like home. View it as a business and lifestyle decision where you are selecting a contract, and not to forget the aspects of your side of the contract, which are always wieghted heavily against you no matter where you go; i.e. National Service or the possibility of it.

In general I've seen the following option catagories. I'd really like to see more:

1) Investment programs. Great if you got the cash. My favorite is the Ecuador rainforest option. It seems worthy and while I forget the amount, the best value.

2) The naturalisation process. It's slow and you need to be in one place usually for a period of years. Personnally I find it very hard to be in one place for a period of years! It's very doable though; Argentina, Uruguay, Chile, NZ and so on. Just takes some time without marriage etc. Marriage can also be slow though.

3) Asylum. Everybody in the popular destination countries think it's easy. It's not. Typically I see refugees from the various middle eastern countries we're bombing. I'd like to know more about this. I'm from the UK.



I wouldn't recommend a jump from USA to UK as the 2 are very financially linked, which as we've seen with the governments obviously answering to the financials, is the thing that matters politically. A jump to NZ is still within that sphere actually as it's the commonwealth under the Queen but also a long way in most other respects, so extradion al-la Kim Dotcom is easy and the whole thing is unmasked. Uruguay is an interesting one. You think it's latin america and with privacy on the banking. Actually the tax info sharing agreements have been signed and it's an ex British colony outpost.
To really get away from the USA you'd have to be looking at it's enemies. Since the USA is the global power at the moment, which would mean Iran, China, Venezuela. There's a grey area between for those who just don't want the taxes or national service. Places like Ecuador.

[sanssouci]

What about Cuba, does anyone have knowledge of first hand information they are willing to share.?
I am located in the Florida Keys, have a 45'sailboat and it takes me abount 12-18 to sail over to a marina in Cuba. (Clearance takes 3-4 hours)

[ArtM]

I doubt the OP had a serious request, but if he did then the place to start, as you suggested, is to understand what you want to accomplish. Why do you want to gain citizenship in a new country? From there, you can go about the business of getting said citizenship.

If you sole purpose, though, is to find a country with an easily gamed system which you can ride for government benefits, you will have a tough time.

[hellosailor]

Yes, many Americans have fled to Cuba and lived there happily ever after. They make the news from time to time. Just sail down and ask for asylum. Although, I think every time I've heard about Americans emigrating to Cuba, they've had federal warrants out for them for some time first. And for some reason, all the Cubano ex-pats in Miami have no interest at all in returning there.

Baffles me. Totally baffles me.

[sanssouci]

Originally Posted by hellosailor

Yes, many Americans have fled to Cuba and lived there happily ever after. They make the news from time to time. Just sail down and ask for asylum. Although, I think every time I've heard about Americans emigrating to Cuba, they've had federal warrants out for them for some time first. And for some reason, all the Cubano ex-pats in Miami have no interest at all in returning there.

Baffles me. Totally baffles me.

It baffles me too, thats one of the reasons I'm wondering.
I wonder how much visa time the Cuban Government would give a US Citizen? What it would cost to keep my 45' boat at a marina? What it would cost to rent a small house or apt?

[belizesailor]

Originally Posted by hblask

Which countries have the most reasonable route to becoming a citizen of that country, coming from the United States? I saw something about the rules being different for retiring there for some places.

Is it just a matter of giving them money and waiting, or do you need special skills?

Do you really want "citizenship" or just "residency"?

In all countries I am familiar with the path to legal residency is much easier and quicker. Quite easy here in Guatemala for example.

[hellosailor]

Easy enough to find out. Call a Cuban consul or embassy. In NY at the UN (mission) or in Canada. The USPS used to pass mail to Havana via Canada too, might still. Ask the Cubans, if you think you'd like to live there. Of course, you may never be allowed back into the US afterwards.

[ArtM]

Originally Posted by hellosailor

Yes, many Americans have fled to Cuba and lived there happily ever after. They make the news from time to time. Just sail down and ask for asylum. Although, I think every time I've heard about Americans emigrating to Cuba, they've had federal warrants out for them for some time first. And for some reason, all the Cubano ex-pats in Miami have no interest at all in returning there.

Baffles me. Totally baffles me.

I have recently married into a family of Cuban ex-pats. There are two kinds of Cuban refugees in Miami - according to my wife, "those who came on a plane, and those who came on a boat", being polite.

Many of those who came on the plane were former leaders of business, owners of successful farms and ranches, and entrepreneurs. These were the first people Fidel alienated when his government confiscated and nationalized their businesses. These people were officially invited to "love it or leave it" - and they left it.

A second wave of Cubans came who were these people's family members, brought over one or two at a time, until many families were entirely located in the United States.

To say they have no interest in returning is partly accurate - they have no interest in returning permanently. Many return annually on visitors visa, and conversely have family members from Cuba visiting them in Miami.

With no home, no business, no relatives, and a financial system that rejected them, Cuba no longer holds interest for most of these people. They do miss the culture and the island life, but they have much of that in Miami, which is only 90 miles away, and there are many other "islands in the sea". Little love is lost on Cuba.

These people are, realistically, not far from home - not much more than someone in Queens moving to the Bronx.

[ArtM]

Cuba offers a perfect lifestyle, though, for those who wish to give little, and need little in return. This has become a problem for some of the recent immigrants, who are used to spending their days idly hanging around a bakery window, smoking cigarettes, and chatting away their days. They end up becoming a burden on their families, who become frustrated with their inability or unwillingness to adjust to the Miami or US lifestyles, which are notably faster paced.

[ArtM]

Originally Posted by sanssouci

It baffles me too, thats one of the reasons I'm wondering.
I wonder how much visa time the Cuban Government would give a US Citizen? What it would cost to keep my 45' boat at a marina? What it would cost to rent a small house or apt?

US citizens are forbidden from spending money in Cuba. That is the point of the "embargo" - no goods or services sold to, or purchased from Cuba by American Citizens. The U.S. government and courts have generally interpreted visits to Cuba as being illegal based on the concept that you cannot visit Cuba without spending any money there.

There are exceptions, though. There are U.S. citizens who can legally visit, and even live there for extended periods. If you can meet one of those requirements, you may be able to do what you are suggesting.

[Blue Stocking]

Originally Posted by sanssouci

It baffles me too, thats one of the reasons I'm wondering.
I wonder how much visa time the Cuban Government would give a US Citizen? What it would cost to keep my 45' boat at a marina? What it would cost to rent a small house or apt?

Call the U.S embassy in Havana and ask.There is one, you know.
I recently spent time with an English couple who obtained their visas to visit the US while in Cuba.
Clearly marked, issued in Havana.
They are subscribers to CF, but don't jump in often.

[ArtM]

Originally Posted by Blue Stocking

Call the U.S embassy in Havana and ask.There is one, you know.
I recently spent time with an English couple who obtained their visas to visit the US while in Cuba.
Clearly marked, issued in Havana.
They are subscribers to CF, but don't jump in often.

I didn't clarify that the embargo and prohibitions on US citizens are US law, not Cuban law. I'm not aware of any Cuban law prohibiting US visitors, or immigrants.

Cuba has a thriving tourist business that is popular with Canadians, Europeans, and South Americans. US Citizens do go, but it is illegal for them to do so.

An interesting question would be "what is the US penalty for violating the Cuban Embargo". In today's world, I think the US is looking the other way, for the most part, since few people consider the embargo to be relevant in the modern world.