Which Flag?

[David M]

Originally Posted by donradcliffe
One consideration in documenting your vessel is how often the documentation must be renewed. US documentation must be renewed annually. Although this is free, it is a major PITA, as you have to get the new document delivered to you in exotic places.


Thats why it is a good idea to pay someone to open your mail for you and take care of business at home while you are out of the country. Its much easier to make a phone call to that person than to try to have mail forwarded to you overseas.

[David M]

Originally Posted by pogo

A flag of convenience? = Courtesy Flag (Flying that ensign of the nation upon whos waters you have entered or are operating upon) therefore; following the rules and laws of the same country while in their countries waters are mandate.

A courtesy flag and a flag of convenience are two different things. There is no time when they would be the same flag in fact. A Flag of Convenience is the flag of the country with which a ship has registered in order to minimize operating costs, such as Panama, Honduras and Liberia plus a number of other countries as well.

[David M]

Originally Posted by hellosailor

. Not to be confused with the other blue and white courtesy flag (blue field, white diagonal stripe) which means "Owner absent, guest on board". If you are borrowing someone's boat, that's an old and mainly unused courtesy to prevent others from rowing over only to find the expected owner isn't there.

Not to be confused with the "Blue Peter", code flag "P" which is a blue square with a white square inset on it. That's the general recall signal for all crew ashore, meaning a ship will be leaving immenently. PG-13:

The third repeater is more commonly used to let others know the captain is not on board. For security reasons for yachts it probably is not such a good idea to fly this flag.

[Alan Wheeler]

Hey the sticky is not the be all end all. I will continue to "upgrade"
Can anyone lead me to a link I maybe able to cut and past Flags from???

[Hud3]

Alan,

Landfall Navigation has a good collection of courtesy flags: Courtesy Flags

Flags of nations at Flags of Nations at BestWeb2000.com

[GreyRaven]

Originally Posted by David_Old_Jersey

Although I am not so well travelled as many (most?!) here by boat - I have in my past professional life sent or dealt with a fair few vessels in various parts of the globe registered under a different flag to that of their skipper's passports (let alone the crew). Never heard of a problem.

Of course all the paperwork was in order. it's not illegal - it's not even bending the rules.

Of course I am sure their are parts of the globe where some of the locals may not understand what is normal elsewhere in the world (and is legal in their own), or think that anything they do not understand is therefore suspicious - especially when involving foreigners......but IMO the stupidity of others is not a reason to stay at home......and in any event you can never plan for the stupidity of others..........

Actually thinking about it a bit more, MY vessel is foreign flagged...........in England

Your observations fully concur with those that I have made. It should be repeated that the paperwork must be in order. But isn’t that part of good seamanship?

In many parts of the globe numerous fools reside. Some of them wave swords, some of them wave flags and some wave both. Yet, when I have noticed a proclivity among my crew towards trashing other skippers or their ships I have reminded them that it may be precisely that ship which might be the one within hailing distance when things go wrong for us. One should keep that in mind.

Arrogance is a passion which searches for what suffering creates.

One further item should also be addressed here: it makes no difference whatsoever how a ship is flagged, anywhere in the world, if it sends out a distress signal. It will be responded to by the coast guard of any nation, irrespective of the flag. The same applies to U.S. territorial waters.

Do you really think that the U.S. Coast Guard would leave a Swiss vessel to its fate, off the Florida Coast, because it isn’t flying “Old Glory”? Or that American flagged ships receive “preferred rescue” treatment? Or than an American ship in distress in Turkey would be ignored? What rubbish! How provincial can one get?

It would do many Americans a world of good to connect up with the real world. It isn’t the Disneyland they believe it is. One post on this thread that I can’t find again (perhaps it was edited) stated that flag etiquette is essentially irrelevant and unimportant in most places. This is incorrect, at least in Europe and most of the rest of the world.

When entering any European port it is a good idea to have that courtesy flag up there where it belongs.

A word to the wise.

[Alan Wheeler]

Do you really think that the U.S. Coast Guard would leave a Swiss vessel to its fate, off the Florida Coast, because it isn’t flying “Old Glory”? Or that American flagged ships receive “preferred rescue” treatment? Or than an American ship in distress in Turkey would be ignored? What rubbish! How provincial can one get?

I can not find anywhere here where anyone has said the opposite. What are you refering too.

It would do many Americans a world of good to connect up with the real world. It isn’t the Disneyland they believe it is. One post on this thread that I can’t find again (perhaps it was edited) stated that flag etiquette is essentially irrelevant and unimportant in most places. This is incorrect, at least in Europe and most of the rest of the world.

That's enough of that sort of rubbish thank-you very much. Keep that sort of crap to yourself.

One post on this thread that I can’t find again (perhaps it was edited)

Maybe it wasn't there in the first place. You might want to read more carefuly in the future and be more careful and polite with your responses.

[Chief Engineer]

In Baltimore, there was a Tug and Container Barge Company that was non-union....the associated trucking company was non-union...all were employed.....A guy came in and organized a union on the tugs....they voted them in....then filed a grievance...about unsafe conditions (hardly)
The owners said O.K. "I don't have the money"....sold the tugs...and the guys were outta work....In truth this guy treats his employees quite well to begin with.

Massive government regulation....does it too......We all have our own horror stories to tell

Originally Posted by Pelagic

Perhaps it might have also been some of the outrageous demands by the unions and guilds on ship-owners that drove them offshore in order to remain competitive.
Similar to the longshoreman problems we all have suffered through.

[DtM]

At least he called them Americans instead of Seppos or Yanks !!!!

[Alan Wheeler]

Keep this on track guys. We are talking about flags.

[Alan Wheeler]

David, I am reading the rules from my reference book for Yacht Master course, which is British. Does anyone know if British Fag Etiquette differs from American??
Also if there is a different Diver down flag for the USA, can someone desrcibe that for me please.
I have made some "subtle" changes to the sticky :-)

[Fishman]

Thanks guys for completely pulverising my original thread! But it makes for fairly interesting reading...I did not realize that you guys had so much spare time. And the yankees on this forum are far too sensitive! My original question was about a flag of convenience: I wish to register my cat cheaply for 3-5 years, there won't be major tax consequences and whilst I have the choice, I might as well get the flag which most 3rd world locals like as well. This has nothing to do with how one treats the locals or how patriotic you are: Its about having a user friendly flag i.e. South African flagged yachts pay way more for a cruise permit than UK flagged yachts in US waters OR Can a US flagged yacht visit Cuba? And trust me, in certain countries the "wrong" flag WILL attract unnecessary attention, and as I've mentioned above you can be charged more $$ for your permit. Those of you who have sailed around the world RECENTLY (and did NOT avoid so-called troublesome areas), I would love to hear your input. I don't want to have avoid certain countries because of this.
Thanks
Fishy

[kesey]

Originally Posted by Fishman

Thanks guys for completely pulverising my original thread! But it makes for fairly interesting reading...I did not realize that you guys had so much spare time. And the yankees on this forum are far too sensitive! My original question was about a flag of convenience: I wish to register my cat cheaply for 3-5 years, there won't be major tax consequences and whilst I have the choice, I might as well get the flag which most 3rd world locals like as well. This has nothing to do with how one treats the locals or how patriotic you are: Its about having a user friendly flag i.e. South African flagged yachts pay way more for a cruise permit than UK flagged yachts in US waters OR Can a US flagged yacht visit Cuba? And trust me, in certain countries the "wrong" flag WILL attract unnecessary attention, and as I've mentioned above you can be charged more $$ for your permit. Those of you who have sailed around the world RECENTLY (and did NOT avoid so-called troublesome areas), I would love to hear your input. I don't want to have avoid certain countries because of this.
Thanks
Fishy

Fishy, well done on starting a fine thread which generated plenty of info as well as a bit of heat:-)

I would suggest looking at St.Vincent and the Grenadines. Ireland would not go amiss either. I think we adopted Nelson Mandela somewhere along the road! The St. Vincent flag would probably be easier to realise than the Irish in terms of paperwork and intricacies.

fair winds,

kesey

[GreyRaven]

Originally Posted by Alan Wheeler

I can not find anywhere here where anyone has said the opposite. What are you refering too.

Quote: HighCotton

“AND if you're in trouble, wouldn't you WANT to fly Old Glory so you'll have NO trouble calling the U.S. Coast Guard ?!?.......”

* * *

Why should a vessel not flying the U.S. flag have ANY trouble calling the U.S. Coast Guard?

Quote:

“Who you gonna call.......... The HAITIENS..... or maybe the JAMAICANS ?????? no offense to any other country but I prefer the protection of these UNITED STATES......”

Despite declarations of intent to the contrary, statements such as the above ARE offensive. Further, I don’t remember ever having seen the U.S. Coast Guard patrolling the Mediterranean.

The world is simply a bigger place than some assume.

[Alan Wheeler]

Fair enough. But let me remind EVERYONE, to keep Politics out of discussions and to keep replies polite and curtious.