Who is in Charge if Legally Boarded?

[dwedeking2]

Originally Posted by YPSILANTI

I live in Africa. Here, the guy with the biggest firearm is in charge, commonly referred to as "Sir." Unfortunately not always an official.

That's the way it works the world over. We just market it better here in the US.

[Wotname]

Originally Posted by Johnno

It's interesting that the original thread came from 'Wotname' based in Australia and no Australians have responded. Thanks to our USA compatriots for advice on USCG activity. Here in Australia we have Border Force, (incorporating Customs), Royal Australian Air Force (maritime patrol over flights), Federal Police, State Police, Fisheries Protection & Marine Parks Authority and the Great Barrier Reef Marine Park Authority, all hell bent on stopping private craft and asking questions. I've encountered them all from time to time and have found them to be mostly professional although the fisheries mob can be a bit over the top. In Australian waters yachties are normally overflown by Border Force who call on VHF 16 and are courteous but seem to overfly you every day or two, makes you wonder if they don't share data!

Thanks Johno, yes the absence of Aussies responding has been noted as well as Europeans (and I count the the UK in that group) .

I'm not sure if this suggests that boarding are rare in Aus or what? I must say that anecdotal evidence suggests that boardings occur much more frequently in Qld than the other states. I dunno if this is true but if so, I could think of many reasons why this might be so.

[Al B]

I keep my boat in Cape Canaveral
MAJOR PORT
Kennedy Space center
Navy base
4 major cruise lines dock
commercial cargo ships
Commercial fishing industry
A number of private marinas
Big pleasure & commercial boating community
You talk about security .
2 Sheriff boats guarding each ship
Every boat leaving & entering port has sheriff escort
You cant even spit overboard with out somebody knowing

ZERO WAKE ENTIRE PORT
Cape Canaveral just built a new launch facility 4 ramps double wide .
At opening of port so when fisherman launch they are able get out too channel and open it up . Prior launch ramp with midway within port and bit nuts too control
Coast Guard gun runner boats
Navy boats
Home land security

I used too get stopped often within port Boarded . Small talk. Have a nice day
I have nothing too hide . They are doing their jobs especially in todays crazy world .
Always offering cold beverage . A pain but always pleasant
I heard the law changed, they cant board ?? not up on that so let me know

The commercial guys bitch how its over kill and they are always busting their chops .
Recently I was blocked from leaving port , a nautilus sub was above surface, leaving port full escort. Wow got chills . Recent Space X shuttles .
Also Florida wildlife officers patrol
I see the same deputies and they know my boat , and generally get a wave
Sometimes the security can be a bit much , but its PORT CANAVERAL

Last year I was cruising south . I was about 10 miles south of Port Canaveral on ocean
trying too beat a storm in distance on my way too Sebastian Inlet
All of a sudden it was upon me
Lights flashing, telling me on speaker Capt stop your boat
Intimidating vessel. Machine gun on bow
3 coast guard board my boat .
Routine inspection
Small talk , find out one came from an area I used too reside .
They were very pleasant
They said too me KNOW WHY WE STOPPED YOU ? Cause your the only one out here ?
Just chalked it up too another day boating .
As I said at times it gets a bit much , I cant drink ( miss that ice cold beer on deck on a 100 degree Fl day ) so I never worry about that , but yes its over kill but in todays world they have too do it .

[royalstar]

ahahahaha, reading this US regime boardings it looks like the CCCP or Soviet Union in their heydays. I was sailing in communist Yugoslavia for years (going and coming to and from Italy, Greece) and never had any "boarding" by authority and you are comlaining about Med (authorities) when you are cruising there, and in same time in your own country you are keeping low like soil worms becouse you know if you pissed them off in best scenario they will turn you inside out, in worst scenario you will bite the bullet.

I think it is not much better in Australia. I saw on TV when they charged person 250 dollars just because he did not declare ONE apple to the immigration/custom.

[Seighlor]

Have been boarded many many times. Once by Mexican Navy. Their procedure was the same as with the USCG. But their weapons were more intimidating and the language barrier added to my discomfort. As with the Coasties, I was allowed to remain at the helm while one of the boarding crew went below. Inspection complete, they returned to their ship and I was allowed, somewhat shaken, to continue.

In a reverse situation to offering cokes to the boarding party... At dawn on January 2nd, 1961, a friend and I were boarded in the vicinity of Cape Fear, North Carolina. During the preceding twenty-four hours we had been buffeted by a cold front as we made our way around Cape Hatteras. Temps were at twelve degrees, our boat was covered with ice and we had no fuel for the stove.

Prior to the boarding party departing their large cutter, they asked if we needed anything. I acknowledged that a cup of hot coffee would be nice. Sure 'nuff. They came alongside with what looked to be a two-gallon thermos. My friend Chuck and I warmed our tummies while the Coasties carried out their more than friendly inspection, bless 'em.

[Brewgyver]

Originally Posted by Teknishn

(snippage)They slow down as I come alongside and ask "You guys want some Chili Dogs? Rafted up on a cold January day and ate pretty good. These guys and gals are doing a job...a very important one....Be nice and thank them for their efforts.

Nice!

[mottseng]

Originally Posted by boatpoker

Delivering boats cross border I have been boarded many times over the years by USCG,
all were friendly experiences.

My one bad experience was refusing to stop for a regional canadian police force in Lake Ontario. They wanted me to stop a 55' Fairline in a very narrow channel in high winds.
I made them wait a half hour til' I was in a position I thought safe. They were very unpleasant and threatening til' I pointed out that their nav lights were illegal and they were in a 32' inflatable after dusk and without a radar reflector. I told them if they ticketed me for failure to stop I would lay charges against them ....... they grumbled and left.

Bottom line .... I let them run the show unless I think their instructions are unsafe.

Were you in radio communication with them advising of your intent not to stop for safety reasons or did you just keep going expecting them read your mind? Also, what charges would you lay against them and how would you do that since I don't believe you have authority to lay charges?

[boatpoker]

Originally Posted by mottseng

Were you in radio communication with them advising of your intent not to stop for safety reasons or did you just keep going expecting them read your mind? Also, what charges would you lay against them and how would you do that since I don't believe you have authority to lay charges?

They did not have 1m separation of running lights All three were on the arch with only about 1' vertical separation) and were in a large RIB after dusk and did not have a radar reflector. In Canada anyone can lay a charge through a justice of the peace.

There was no radio communication, they yelled at me and I was too busy navigating a very tight turn in a very stiff breeze in a high windage vessel. Once I cleared the harbour by about 400yds. I stopped and they boarded.

Keep in mind these are local water cops who did not have the USCG skills of boarding a vessel underway.

My experiences with the USCG (and I've had a lot) have shown that they are without exception courteous and professional. My experience with local water cops has been that many (not all) of them are simple bullies who became policeman so they could wear a gun and show how much they are in charge. The USCG would not have demanded that I stop the vessel in these conditions.

[Scot McPherson]

Originally Posted by mottseng

Were you in radio communication with them advising of your intent not to stop for safety reasons or did you just keep going expecting them read your mind? Also, what charges would you lay against them and how would you do that since I don't believe you have authority to lay charges?

How about the charges of giving an unsafe order and operating a non-compliant vessel?

The US Coast Guard would not operate a non-compliant vessel, I can guarantee that. At worst, if it was non-compliant, it became so as a result of and during a mission, but not at the start of the mission, and chances are the boat was prepared for any mission on it's roster and has extras of this or that in case they needed to be replaced on the fly or handed out to civilians (like PFDs for instance). These guys have their house in order.

[mottseng]

Originally Posted by Scot McPherson

How about the charges of giving an unsafe order and operating a non-compliant vessel?

The US Coast Guard would not operate a non-compliant vessel, I can guarantee that. At worst, if it was non-compliant, it became so as a result of and during a mission, but not at the start of the mission, and chances are the boat was prepared for any mission on it's roster and has extras of this or that in case they needed to be replaced on the fly or handed out to civilians (like PFDs for instance). These guys have their house in order.

It is my understanding that in the US the coast guard have legal authorities that the Canadian Coast guard doesn't have. Therefore, the patrolling of waters is usually left up to the local police department or in Ontario the OPP or RCMP. As an ex-officer I don't know what training they go through but I do know that they have the authority of any police officer upholding any statute. Obviously I can't speak to this particular situation and have to take Boatpoker at his word. It has been my experience that the marine units of the police departments are very well equipped and trained and they too would not operate a non-compliant vessel.

[boatpoker]

Originally Posted by mottseng

It is my understanding that in the US the coast guard have legal authorities that the Canadian Coast guard doesn't have. Therefore, the patrolling of waters is usually left up to the local police department or in Ontario the OPP or RCMP. As an ex-officer I don't know what training they go through but I do know that they have the authority of any police officer upholding any statute. Obviously I can't speak to this particular situation and have to take Boatpoker at his word. It has been my experience that the marine units of the police departments are very well equipped and trained and they too would not operate a non-compliant vessel.

My instance was about 6yrs ago. Take a look at big Peel Police RIB, it was still the same last August when I headed south.

[a64pilot]

The FWC in particular are well known to run around at night displaying no lights. I have no idea who they think they are fooling, nobody else runs blacked out

[mottseng]

Originally Posted by boatpoker

My instance was about 6yrs ago. Take a look at big Peel Police RIB, it was still the same last August when I headed south.

Should call the marine unit up and let them know.

[boatpoker]

Originally Posted by mottseng

Should call the marine unit up and let them know.

I told them 6yrs ago ! I also repeated the message several times when I met them on the dock over the years (they had to pass my slip to get out of the harbor). I also told them when I was testifying for them as an marine expert witness in another case when we were chewing the fat outside the court room and in the same situation on another case as a witness of fact in a marine incident. I also told two of them when I surveyed their personal boats when purchased. In all cases I got a shrug. I got blank looks when I mentioned Collision Regulations ..... I don't think they knew what they were.

I have worked with the RCMP marine unit (been on a number of advanced courses with them) and found them to be exceptionally well trained up to commercial tickets of 300GT. I've worked with the OPP and found them to be reasonably well trained. I have had close relations with three of the major municipal marine police units on Lake Ontario and found that their training consists of getting a PCOC and being trained by the old guys as they rotated new crew. This method of training causes misinformation and myths to be passed down and treated as gospel.

PS. I'm surprised that as an ex officer from Ontario that you didn't know a citizen could lay charges through a JP since so many Ontario cops have been charged via this method.

[leftbrainstuff]

Originally Posted by boatpoker

Delivering boats cross border I have been boarded many times over the years by USCG,
all were friendly experiences.

My one bad experience was refusing to stop for a regional canadian police force in Lake Ontario. They wanted me to stop a 55' Fairline in a very narrow channel in high winds.
I made them wait a half hour til' I was in a position I thought safe. They were very unpleasant and threatening til' I pointed out that their nav lights were illegal and they were in a 32' inflatable after dusk and without a radar reflector. I told them if they ticketed me for failure to stop I would lay charges against them ....... they grumbled and left.

Bottom line .... I let them run the show unless I think their instructions are unsafe.

Nice use of knowledge of the regs.