Who is in Charge if Legally Boarded?

[mottseng]

Originally Posted by boatpoker

I told them 6yrs ago ! I also repeated the message several times when I met them on the dock over the years (they had to pass my slip to get out of the harbor). I also told them when I was testifying for them as an marine expert witness in another case when we were chewing the fat outside the court room and in the same situation on another case as a witness of fact in a marine incident. I also told two of them when I surveyed their personal boats when purchased. In all cases I got a shrug. I got blank looks when I mentioned Collision Regulations ..... I don't think they knew what they were.

I have worked with the RCMP marine unit (been on a number of advanced courses with them) and found them to be exceptionally well trained up to commercial tickets of 300GT. I've worked with the OPP and found them to be reasonably well trained. I have had close relations with three of the major municipal marine police units on Lake Ontario and found that their training consists of getting a PCOC and being trained by the old guys as they rotated new crew. This method of training causes misinformation and myths to be passed down and treated as gospel.

PS. I'm surprised that as an ex officer from Ontario that you didn't know a citizen could lay charges through a JP since so many Ontario cops have been charged via this method.

Well done. Sounds like you have certainly done your civic duty. Nothing more you can do and no all the charges I laid were as an officer. Never got trained on how a civilian lays a charge. Usually if a civilian finds an offence being committed they call the police.

[a64pilot]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9efgLHgsBmM

[rmlarson1098]

Listen, I know the Coasties are 'nice folks just doing a job', but to disregard the Bill of Rights (MY 10 Commandments) and allow search & and possible seizure without probable cause is UN-AMERICAN. You can say what you will about drugs, illegal immigrants, etc. but to surrender our liberties in the name of safety and/or security is also un-American. And shame on anyone that is a proponent. See how you like the totalitarian state that will follow.
We were boarded at night in international waters by the U.S. Coast Guard in the Caribbean. These guys were none too friendly, (briskly businless-like might work) searched the boat carefully, and took exception to the shotgun we carry on board, asking why we needed it and if we had a permit. (!?) I know just how this works in Mexican waters, (bummer) and in other places where we've surrendered the weapon to the local gendarmes - but we don't need a permit for a long-arm in the USA, or in Int'l. waters. And I resent them - or anyone else - for bullying us about it. Like the U.S. Border Patrol, questioning & searching folks well inside (within 100 miles) of our actual 'borders', this is an outrage. Pretty much piracy in international waters, if you ask me.

[Scot McPherson]

rmlarson,
I hate to tell you bro, but the USCG has the AUTHORITY to board your vessel on the water, or at dock, on the hard and whether you are present or not, and with or without your permission. They are the ONLY law enforcement office given this authority, but they do indeed have it.


The U.S. Coast Guard Boarding Policy:
Title 14 section 89 of the United States Code authorizes the U.S. Coast Guard to board vessels subject to the jurisdiction of the United States, anytime, any place upon the high seas and upon any waterway over which the United States has jurisdiction, to make inquires, examinations, inspections, searches, seizures, and arrests. The U.S. Coast Guard does not require a warrant to conduct search, seizures, arrests over any United States Waterway or high seas. The U.S. Coast Guard also have full legal law enforcement power on any land under the control of the United States, as needed to complete any mission.

[rwidman]

Originally Posted by Scot McPherson

rmlarson,
I hate to tell you bro, but the USCG has the AUTHORITY to board your vessel on the water, or at dock, on the hard and whether you are present or not, and with or without your permission. They are the ONLY law enforcement office given this authority, but they do indeed have it.


The U.S. Coast Guard Boarding Policy:
Title 14 section 89 of the United States Code authorizes the U.S. Coast Guard to board vessels subject to the jurisdiction of the United States, anytime, any place upon the high seas and upon any waterway over which the United States has jurisdiction, to make inquires, examinations, inspections, searches, seizures, and arrests. The U.S. Coast Guard does not require a warrant to conduct search, seizures, arrests over any United States Waterway or high seas. The U.S. Coast Guard also have full legal law enforcement power on any land under the control of the United States, as needed to complete any mission.

I think most of use know the above but that doesn't mean we believe it is Constitutional.

Why do we lose out Constitutional protections the minute we board a boat?

[jmschmidt]

I specifically stated that my warning notice was in reference to "water cops" not the US Coast Guard. As usual people on this forum have taken my comments in many different and irrelevant directions.

The Supreme Court of the United States ruled that New York cops can't stop and search the cell phone of a known drug dealer on the streets of the city with out probably cause. If so then I'm quite sure water cops have no authority to board your boat without the same probable cause or your permission. To repeat; This ruling is about people who are known to the police to be drug dealers with prior arrests and/or convictions but who are just walking down the street minding their own business. This legal concept sure as hell applies to water cops as well. But why piss them off, just let them on but make sure you know your rights.

The ruling does not apply to the US Coast Guard which has authority to board any vessel (state registered or documented) within the territorial waters of the United States for any reason, with or without probable cause. The US Coast Guard has the authority to board any US documented vessel anytime, anywhere, in territorial waters or on the high seas worldwide. The US Coast Guard and the US Navy has the authority to board any vessel displaying any flag on the high seas world-wide by obtaining the permission of the country who's flag a vessel is flying. Do not fly a flag of a country where your vessel in not registered or documented to avoid the USCG. When, not if, the USCG discovers you are flying a false flag you likely will have your boat confiscated (or sunk by navel gun fire) and you will spend a long time in a US jail if you are lucky or in a jail of the third-world country of your false flag.

[Scot McPherson]

Originally Posted by jmschmidt

I specifically stated that my warning notice was in reference to "water cops" not the US Coast Guard. As usual people on this forum have taken my comments in many different and irrelevant directions.

The Supreme Court of the United States ruled that New York cops can't stop and search the cell phone of a known drug dealer on the streets of the city with out probably cause. If so then I'm quite sure water cops have no authority to board your boat without the same probable cause or your permission. To repeat; This ruling is about people who are known to the police to be drug dealers with prior arrests and/or convictions but who are just walking down the street minding their own business. This legal concept sure as hell applies to water cops as well. But why piss them off, just let them on but make sure you know your rights.

The ruling does not apply to the US Coast Guard which has authority to board any vessel (state registered or documented) within the territorial waters of the United States for any reason, with or without probable cause. The US Coast Guard has the authority to board any US documented vessel anytime, anywhere, in territorial waters or on the high seas worldwide. The US Coast Guard and the US Navy has the authority to board any vessel displaying any flag on the high seas world-wide by obtaining the permission of the country who's flag a vessel is flying. Do not fly a flag of a country where your vessel in not registered or documented to avoid the USCG. When, not if, the USCG discovers you are flying a false flag you likely will have your boat confiscated (or sunk by navel gun fire) and you will spend a long time in a US jail if you are lucky or in a jail of the third-world country of your false flag.

I understand, and I didn't mean to go off on a tangent, but I do want to be sure if a casual reader reads that it's within your rights to refuse a boarding by the USCG, I just wanted to be sure that statement was corrected.

[a64pilot]

Originally Posted by rwidman

Why do we lose out Constitutional protections the minute we board a boat?

Many have asked that, and there has been some logical explanation that way back in the day there was simply no recreational boating, and hence no protections for the general public.
I have no idea if there is any truth to that or not, there may be.

However I believe in honesty if you feel strongly about it, take it up with your Congress person, that is why they are there I think.

PS I don't like it either, but have no choice so I try to be the nicest I can when it happens.

[jmschmidt]

I have stated many times on this forum exactly what you said however I am still getting flaming replies that have nothing to do with my comments.

If failed to mention the some water cops may have boarding authority in some states over state registered boats due to those state boating regulations. But I can assure everyone that, like the New York drug dealers, they cannot without probable causes. These types of local regulations have never been tested in court. Since we sailors typically don't have enough time or money to protect our rights it should be up to the boating lobby to do it for us. Don't hold your breath.

[Sailorbob8599]

Originally Posted by jmschmidt

Since we sailors typically don't have enough time or money to protect our rights it should be up to the boating lobby to do it for us. Don't hold your breath.

Just wondering, who is "the boating lobby" in the USA?

In Canada, we have the CYA or Canadian Yachting Association. If one belongs to a Yacht Club, usually, one is automatically a member of the CYA but, what of those who are not members of a yacht club?

I've been a member of a number of yacht clubs over many years, contributing my dues through those yacht clubs but, I haven't a clue as to exactly what the CYA has ever done for me. How about you folk south of the 49th?

[boatpoker]

Originally Posted by Sailorbob8599

Just wondering, who is "the boating lobby" in the USA?

In Canada, we have the CYA or Canadian Yachting Association. If one belongs to a Yacht Club, usually, one is automatically a member of the CYA but, what of those who are not members of a yacht club?

I've been a member of a number of yacht clubs over many years, contributing my dues through those yacht clubs but, I haven't a clue as to exactly what the CYA has ever done for me. How about you folk south of the 49th?

CYA (Now called Sail Canada) is all about racing at the yacht clubs. It does absolutely nothing for the 90% of club members who pay the dues and don't race and nothing for the 40% of club membership powerboats.

[rwidman]

Originally Posted by Sailorbob8599

Just wondering, who is "the boating lobby" in the USA?

BoatUS.

[Sailorbob8599]

Originally Posted by rwidman

BoatUS.

OK, so what do they do for you?

Having read BoatPokers response on the Canadian side, I fully agree with him.

In over 65yrs of sailing, I've had absolutely no contact with the CYA and yet, they see fit to extract money from sailors via the Yacht Clubs to which they choose to belong. It's basically no different to a Union Closed Shop where you MUST pay your dues, whether you like it or not. How can they do this? ... I've long since refrained from being a member of any Yacht Club.

[Dave Lochner]

Originally Posted by Sailorbob8599

OK, so what do they do for you?

Having read BoatPokers response on the Canadian side, I fully agree with him.

In over 65yrs of sailing, I've had absolutely no contact with the CYA and yet, they see fit to extract money from sailors via the Yacht Clubs to which they choose to belong. It's basically no different to a Union Closed Shop where you MUST pay your dues, whether you like it or not. How can they do this? ... I've long since refrained from being a member of any Yacht Club.

The equivalent to CYA in the US is US Sailing. They are the national organizing bodies for competitive sailing under ISAF.

BoatUS provides a lot of services to its members. Clubs can affiliate with BoatUS which gives club members a discount on BoatUS membership.

Services include on the water towing, boat trailer towing, insurance, education, political advocacy, assistance with boat purchasing, consumer advocacy among others. It is well worth the $15 a year membership fee for any boater who is also a member of an affiliated club or about $25 for independent members.

When I was racing I was a member of US Sailing, but no longer. Their orientation, as well as CYA, is on competitive sailing.

Edit: Clubs join US Sailing (and presumably CYA) because they sponsor regattas or have racing fleets. US Sailing also offers club insurance and training for race officers and judges.

[nigel1]

Just removed a few posts, but very much doubt if any offense was intended in the first place.
Cheers