Who is in Charge if Legally Boarded?

[Wotname]

After following a few threads about being boarded either in "state waters" or the "high seas", one question that hasn't been fully addressed is "who is responsible for the safe operation and navigation of the boarded vessel while the boarding crew is aboard"?

For the purposes of this thread, let us assume the boarding is legal (or quasi-legal) and is carried out by a government authority of one persuasion or another i.e. not a forced boarding.

I would assume that the skipper (captain / master etc) remains the person responsible for the safety of the vessel and crew but is this the case in actual boardings rather than the "on paper" boardings.

If so, how does this work if the boarding party isolates crew or prevents free movement etc.

I would like to hear about the legal aspects as well as actual experiences.

[rbk]

We've been boarded once by the USCG and I have no problem letting them on board. They radioed us to keep moving forward, they pulled up on our port side and two officers came aboard, did their safety inspection had a little chat then left. Very plensent and informative, for instance if you want to you can arrange for a safety inspection and receive your 'golden slip' and if a boarding is requested for safety inspection you can waive that at them and they will most likely wave good day to you. I stayed at the helm and held course while my wife showed them what they wanted to see and I answered the more technical questions. They're there to help and keep people safe and having a safe vessel keeps others safe as well as the CG safe for not having to jump in the ocean during a storm to save some dumbass not having life jackets on board for example.

[boatpoker]

Delivering boats cross border I have been boarded many times over the years by USCG,
all were friendly experiences.

My one bad experience was refusing to stop for a regional canadian police force in Lake Ontario. They wanted me to stop a 55' Fairline in a very narrow channel in high winds.
I made them wait a half hour til' I was in a position I thought safe. They were very unpleasant and threatening til' I pointed out that their nav lights were illegal and they were in a 32' inflatable after dusk and without a radar reflector. I told them if they ticketed me for failure to stop I would lay charges against them ....... they grumbled and left.

Bottom line .... I let them run the show unless I think their instructions are unsafe.

[JPA Cate]

A long time ago, while delivering someone's boat back to California from the Sea of Cortez, a friend was boarded by the Coasties somewhere off the Baja Coast. The NW winds were blowing about 25 kn. Two coasties boarded, one stayed in the cockpit with the skipper. He slowly let the boat fall off towards the south, till the waves were on the beam. The two coasties left smart quick.

Jim has a wonderful story of almost having been boarded at the end of one of the singlehanded Farallones races, given that his boat was a bit not under control due to the demon of the south tower of the Golden Gate Bridge, who developed a strong distaste for his spinnaker, Jim standing and holding with one hand while the other tried to get the sheet wrap off the boom....The coasties just might have had a moment's chat and decided not to risk it. Of course, he eventually got the situation under control and finished the race. Others were stopped in this drug interdiction effort, but not crazy Mr. Cate.

[sailorchic34]

It gets a little tricky when single handing down a river. Agree that master is still in charge until restricted/restrained by CG. In my case i had the boat on slow ahead on autopilot, while going below with two coasties, getting boat papers, showing safety and head compliance, etc. while bouncing back up for a quick 360 look around a few times.

In my 4 boardings and a few drive by's, the coasties have always been very nice and easy to deal with.

[Jim Cate]

In my 4 boardings and a few drive by's, the coasties have always been very nice and easy to deal with.

And women (blondes in particular) want equality? Why would they want such a downgrade?

Jim

[S/V Alchemy]

Originally Posted by boatpoker

Delivering boats cross border I have been boarded many times over the years by USCG,
all were friendly experiences.

My one bad experience was refusing to stop for a regional canadian police force in Lake Ontario. They wanted me to stop a 55' Fairline in a very narrow channel in high winds.
I made them wait a half hour til' I was in a position I thought safe. They were very unpleasant and threatening til' I pointed out that their nav lights were illegal and they were in a 32' inflatable after dusk and without a radar reflector. I told them if they ticketed me for failure to stop I would lay charges against them ....... they grumbled and left.

Bottom line .... I let them run the show unless I think their instructions are unsafe.

Now I'm picturing the very narrow channel! I've never been boarded on either my low-slung and now sold 33 footer or my much taller 42 footer sailboats. I have been, however, pulled over a few times in my Zodiac. I suspect it was when bandanna and hair length made me look more like a biker. They seemed nearly disappointed when I brought out the flares, the signalling mirror, the throwing line, and other required (and beyond) gear.

It's not hard to meet the rules of the water road.

[pdenton]

If Trump cuts the coast guard budget as he has proposed, why waste precious resources on boarding pleasure vessels. Already F&W boardings have been cut way back in Florida.
pdenton

[Dave Lochner]

Originally Posted by Wotname

For the purposes of this thread, let us assume the boarding is legal (or quasi-legal) and is carried out by a government authority of one persuasion or another i.e. not a forced boarding.

The one time I was boarded after a grounding the CG was pleasant, instructed me to continue to operate the boat, and helped to put away some lines we used to get off the rock pile.

At least in terms of the USCG, there is no such thing as a "quasi-legal" or "illegal" boarding. They have the authority and right to board any boat in US waters and they have the authority to board any US Flagged vessel anywhere. There is no 4th Amendment protection.

https://www.uscg.mil/d1/prevention/n...nforcement.pdf

[KP44]

The USCG are fine. Always great, resourceful people.
The Washington State fish & game dept employees some uneducated flunkies. I was detained by an "officer' who wanted to check my fishing gear. Then he told me I was still in his control and he abandoned my vessel in a crowded, open roadstead to check another smaller boat and then return to my vessel. (By crowded, I mean there were a hundred small boats actively fishing or traveling.) I asked about safety and he threatened me. I wrote to the Director of WSFW and documented the whole, dangerous event. Of course, there was an apology but no promise to train his officers.

[KidSheeleen]

Was stopped on Missouri River once by local fish cops, not sure if Iowa or Nebraska. They left a gash in my paint due to their lousy piloting skills--- no Oops, Sorry about that---nada. Left after asking if we had life vests on board. Did not visually check. Then scurried away. Made my day!

[Teknishn]

Just read this and passed it on in a e-mail to a former colleague of mine that retired from the USCG. So my response here is specific to the US. (I have experiences in other parts of the world....just assume you have no rights other than what the boarding person in charge is offering). My colleague's reply was that the Captain or Skipper of the boat remains in command of the vessel while being boarded by the USCG and for the duration of the USCG inspection or until USCG finds reasonable cause to take command of said vessel (drugs, drinking and driving, illegal weapons, weapons with no permit, as examples). He also reminded me that all vessels in US waters can be boarded for search, inspection, and/or seizure at anytime and a vessel's owner or captain may refuse....but the vessel will be boarded anyway..especially if the owner/captain refuses.

Have owned 5 boat's and have been boarded 3 times over probably a 10-15 year period. (Note: All of my boat's have had that USCG inspection sticker in the window.)

One time I was out testing and troubleshooting a 318 engine in my old N.J. Eastern Sea Skiff. Must've been just above freezing that day. Tied the wheel over so the boat would drive in circles so I can assess the engine. Finished what I needed to do and started to head back to the private dock where I kept the boat. USCG intercepted me and asked me what I was doing. Told them I was testing out my engine. "Good Luck Sir" was the reply and they head off.

Turned the boat around and chased after them honking the horn. Now, These men and women are out there everyday...rain, snow, heat waves and freezing temps doing law enforcement and looking out for us. So I was thinking I could make their day a bit better/different/unusual. They slow down as I come alongside and ask "You guys want some Chili Dogs? Rafted up on a cold January day and ate pretty good. These guys and gals are doing a job...a very important one....Be nice and thank them for their efforts.

(Disclaimer: I'm retired USN. We old U.S. Navy Squids always derided the USCG as not being true "Blue Water" sailors. Was a SAR swimmer for a few years back-in-the-day....And then I learned and understood what the USCG actually does. Total RESPECT to the USCG for what they do. Coastal SAR is much more difficult than out in the blue.)

Next time they want to board you, welcome them onboard, offer them a Coke, Sprite, Water, a snack....whatever. You're out on the water having a good day, they're doing a job....make their day better. They're out there to keep us safe.

[Cheechako]

Originally Posted by Ann T. Cate

A long time ago, while delivering someone's boat back to California from the Sea of Cortez, a friend was boarded by the Coasties somewhere off the Baja Coast. The NW winds were blowing about 25 kn. Two coasties boarded, one stayed in the cockpit with the skipper. He slowly let the boat fall off towards the south, till the waves were on the beam. The two coasties left smart quick.

Jim has a wonderful story of almost having been boarded at the end of one of the singlehanded Farallones races, given that his boat was a bit not under control due to the demon of the south tower of the Golden Gate Bridge, who developed a strong distaste for his spinnaker, Jim standing and holding with one hand while the other tried to get the sheet wrap off the boom....The coasties just might have had a moment's chat and decided not to risk it. Of course, he eventually got the situation under control and finished the race. Others were stopped in this drug interdiction effort, but not crazy Mr. Cate.

I was boarded in about that same area. The lieutenant and another came aboard. It was early am and big leftover seas were in play, from gale force the night before... but little wind in the am. They asked me to heave-to, so I just doused all sail. The Lt. was so seasick he was really a green color! They didn't stay long but wanted to check the closed spaces for guns going into mexico.
They had followed us since before dawn a long ways off, I kept turning to a different tack but they kept following. SO I hailed them asking for a fix (we had SatNav!) The skipper on the CG cutter said "yes, I will send the coordinates over with a boarding party"

[alaskaflyfish]

In 1993, myself (21yo), my brother and his friend were striper fishing the Chesapeake in Virginia Beach. The engine in my 18ft Starcraft quit and we started drifting out to sea. I threw out the anchor and flagged down a passing fishing boat. I didn't have a radio or cell phone, lucky the other guy did. Two hours later the Coast Guard shows up and tells us to pull anchor and toss them the line for a tow. They could clearly see the anchor was stuck fast and the three of us pulling on it nearly swamped the bow of the boat. I asked them what to do and they said (if I wanted to) I could cut the line and throw the remaining rode to them. At this point I believed my vessel was under Coast Guard control. They saw me cut the 3 strand and throw the remaining to them. When we arrived back at the boat landing under the Lestner bridge the officer asked if I was the skipper and then asked permission to do a safety inspection, which I was happy to allow. All was good except for the citation for not having an anchor! The $ fine would be waived if I showed that I had purchased an anchor within the next 30 days. I didn't argue cause I was happy to be back, but I thought it strange to be cited for making a decision that was suggested by the CG.

[jmschmidt]

As is all too typical on this forum none of the responses provide a complete or even any answer to the question, “Who’ is in charge…” if boarded by an authorized marine agency. One was pretty close.

The answers are:

First, an appropriately licensed master hired and contracted for that voyage.

Second: if none, the person who states that he/she is the master (the USCG will always ask who that is.)

Third: the owner of record on the vessel’s documentation or registration if aboard.
Forth: anyone who steps up to the plate.

Fifth: possibly any person onboard who is licensed or certified for any kind of marine activity by any authority on the theory that they have, or should have, superior knowledge regarding the safe and legal operation of a vessel. The USCG can draft you into the position of “master”.

Here’s another news flash: The US Coast Guard has the authority to administer a “Rules of Road” test on the spot, at any time, to any person the boarding officer determines “is in charge.”

As for “water cops” I have a laminated card that I hand to any water cops that want to board my vessel. It reads:

WARNING
THIS IS A DOCUMENTED VESSEL OF THE UNITED STATES
YOU HAVE NO AUTHORITY TO BOARD THIS VESSEL WITHOUT PROBABLE CAUSE
IF YOU INSIST ON DOING SO THE MASTER OR OWNER RESERVES THE RIGHT TO ENTER A LEGAL COMPLAINT IN A FEDERAL COURT WHERE YOU WILL BE REQUIRED TO APPEAR AND SHOW CAUSE FOR YOUR ACTIONS.
Have a nice day.