Yacht, Not Under Command

[ozskipper]

Originally Posted by IslandHopper

So how do you go if you sail into QLD waters when your auxiliary motor exceeds 6hp.....?
Licensing (Maritime Safety Queensland)

No idea. I have sailed in Qld several times. But am no expert on their laws. But based on your paste, it would suggest the desso would need to be licenced if under power.

[justwaiting]

Originally Posted by ozskipper

No idea. I have sailed in Qld several times. But am no expert on their laws. But based on your paste, it would suggest the desso would need to be licenced if under power.

The person in command needs to be licenced and with a blood alchol under the limmit. My interpretation of the law is that applies even if the motor is not working, it only need to be onboard. Bottom line is that unless you are in a marina or on a moring the only balls that they want hanging off your mast is yours and they dont care what colour they are. Their argument is that a boat at anchor MAY become involved in navagation due to it draging its anchor or a number of other different reasons.

It realy dose not matter what our interpretation is only the courts matter in the wash up, but be prepared to shell out legal fees, court costs.... Unless they have changed the laws it may also cost you your drivers licence....

[IslandHopper]

Originally Posted by ozskipper

No idea. I have sailed in Qld several times. But am no expert on their laws. But based on your paste, it would suggest the desso would need to be licenced if under power.

I was just curious as a NSW couple got pinged up in Bundaberg a couple of weeks ago. There making their way back to Coffs from Darwin and got pulled up for a "routine safety check" when they dropped the pick in the Burnett River, when Mr. Plod asked for a boating licence they didn't have one.....


Luckily for them the Water Rats must have been having a good day as no fines where dished out, but.....they told them if they want to carry on down through QLD waters one of them has to go and get a licence or get someone who has one to go with them.....


Last i heard was one of the locals offered to go with them.....

[ozskipper]

Originally Posted by IslandHopper

I was just curious as a NSW couple got pinged up in Bundaberg a couple of weeks ago. There making their way back to Coffs from Darwin and got pulled up for a "routine safety check" when they dropped the pick in the Burnett River, when Mr. Plod asked for a boating licence they didn't have one.....


Luckily for them the Water Rats must have been having a good day as no fines where dished out, but.....they told them if they want to carry on down through QLD waters one of them has to go and get a licence or get someone who has one to go with them.....


Last i heard was one of the locals offered to go with them.....

WOW. and I thought NSW was the nanny state. A licence for yachts!! I suppose it had to happen.

[Lagoon4us]

I remember a time in QLD where we never had to register our yachts.

Speedboat licences were on paper then, when they changed these to plastic incorporating them on our 'Motor Vehicle Licence' they had to go along with the "for life" expiry, which must be the only licence in Australia that does not need re-newing UNLESS you opt for their 'Marine Indicator' on the back of the sophisticated new chipped licences.....

[Factor]

Originally Posted by IslandHopper

I was just curious as a NSW couple got pinged up in Bundaberg a couple of weeks ago. There making their way back to Coffs from Darwin and got pulled up for a "routine safety check" when they dropped the pick in the Burnett River, when Mr. Plod asked for a boating licence they didn't have one.....


Luckily for them the Water Rats must have been having a good day as no fines where dished out, but.....they told them if they want to carry on down through QLD waters one of them has to go and get a licence or get someone who has one to go with them.....


Last i heard was one of the locals offered to go with them.....

I would be strongly arguing that Section 95 (2) (b) of the Transport Operations Marine Safety Reg 2004 provides an exemption. Certainly wouldn't be pleading guilty in a hurry

[IslandHopper]

Originally Posted by Factor

I would be strongly arguing that Section 95 (2) (b) of the Transport Operations Marine Safety Reg 2004 provides an exemption. Certainly wouldn't be pleading guilty in a hurry

But that states....

(b) a current equivalent licence issued under the law of

another State;

....which they don't have as none is required in NSW....

[Lagoon4us]

Originally Posted by IslandHopper

But that states....

....which they don't have as none is required in NSW....

Having no licence is not abiding by the way that law is written!

Unless it said 'equivalent or as required in the home state'.

The wording pertains to a physical thing 'a licence' very confusing stuff methinks.

Cheers

[Factor]

Originally Posted by IslandHopper

But that states....

....which they don't have as none is required in NSW....

Quite John. But the line of argument is that a licence need not be a "physical thing" it is rather a permit to do something. For example, you do not need an individual licence to have a VHF ship station, the act provides that you can have one, you have - in effect - a statutory licence to install a VHF ship station. Or as the act describes it - a CLASS licence.

Equally - it could be argued that NSW residents have a statutory licence to operate a yacht that should be recognised by Qld law.

I ain't saying I am absolutely correct here, I am just saying that if I was from NSW and got done in Queensland I wouldn't be pleading guilty in a hurry. And I would be getting good advice and mounting the argument.

[IslandHopper]

Originally Posted by Lagoon4us

Having no licence is not abiding by the way that law is written!

Unless it said 'equivalent or as required in the home state'.

The wording pertains to a physical thing 'a licence' very confusing stuff methinks.

Cheers

Not sure what you’re getting at their Frank, but the way i read it is, to be legally allowed to be in command of a recreational vessel in QLD (if fitted with an engine of 6hp> blah blah) you must have a boating licence (from wherever) equivalent to the QLD recreational boating licence, and if you don't have a boating licence at all, then legally you are stuffed.....?

http://www.legislation.qld.gov.au/le...stopmsyr04.pdf

95 Required licences for recreational ships
(1) Subject to section 87, a person must hold an appropriate
licence to operate a recreational ship as its master.
(2) The appropriate licence for a person to hold for a recreational
ship, other than a personal watercraft, is any of the
following—

(a) a recreational marine driver licence;
(b) a current equivalent licence issued under the law of
another State;
(c) a current licence to operate a commercial ship or fishing
ship as its master;

(d) a current equivalent foreign licence.

I could be wrong here, but thankfully i have never had to deal with Australian State boat licensing
turf wars

[IslandHopper]

Originally Posted by Factor

Quite John. But the line of argument is that a licence need not be a "physical thing" it is rather a permit to do something. For example, you do not need an individual licence to have a VHF ship station, the act provides that you can have one, you have - in effect - a statutory licence to install a VHF ship station. Or as the act describes it - a CLASS licence.

Equally - it could be argued that NSW residents have a statutory licence to operate a yacht that should be recognised by Qld law.

I ain't saying I am absolutely correct here, I am just saying that if I was from NSW and got done in Queensland I wouldn't be pleading guilty in a hurry. And I would be getting good advice and mounting the argument.

So that could mean these southerners can just come over the border and mock us.....bastards!

[Lagoon4us]

Yes i agree, if in NSW you don't need a licence then that isn't acceptable in QLD because they are saying 'equivalent to", i think the NSW people would be done for?

[Ex-Calif]

Originally Posted by ozskipper

Great vid. Singapore is certainly a mad harbor. I Raced on Hong Kong harbour many years ago. WOW talk about needing a proper lookout lol.

But no, the sailboats dont have right of way. Under colregs, there is no such thing. There is only Stand On and Burdened vessels. But to use laymans language, the sailboats have to give way (burdened) as the ship alone is RAM (Restricted in ability to Manouver) as she is under tow. Without the tow, she would still be the Right of way (Stand on) vessel as she would be deemed CBT (constrained by draft) and the sailboats would still be Burdened.

The crane barge is an interesting one. Perhaps RAM, as it certainly wouldnt be able to maneuver very well. With its shallow draft, I doubt it is CBT though. Perhaps some one can set me straight on this one. But thats my guess.

The ship actually wasn't on tow. The biggest ones bring an escort tug. Apparently some many years ago one lost steering or the windage at slow speed got it and it ran trough our moorings smashing a few boats.

I never look close enough to see if they are displaying proper shapes but with the channel about 5/8nm across and being 2 way they are definitely RAM and we just stay the heck outta the way.

The Hercules (actually that's Herc II) was rafted up and being pushed although it is a self propelled crane. It is flat bottomed so I guess not very maneuverable. I call him restricted as well.

The channel is deep (25-30m in the center) although there are plenty of shallow bits at the edges.

None of these guys has a chance of doing any turns in our channel. I think if the tanker got sideways we could walk across to Ubin Island...

PS - I debated whether to post it after I heard myself saying, "Who's got "right of way"" cuz I knew folks would pick up on that.

I know that's wrong but we were all goofin' so I guess no harm no foul and nobody died...

[SimonV]

Boat Licences NSW


The speed at which a boat is driven determines whether a person needs to be licensed. Any person who drives a powered vessel for recreational purposes on NSW waters at a speed of 10 knots (18.5 km/h) or more must have a boat driver’s licence. Ten knots is the speed at which most accelerating boats will start to plane – that is rise up and skim on top of the water instead of ploughing through it. The exception is anyone who drives a personal watercraft (PWC) at ANY speed must have a PWC Licence.



So you don't need a license for you 50 foot yacht, but when you get in your dinghy and get it on the plane you do.

[Wotname]

Originally Posted by SimonV

Boat Licences NSW


The speed at which a boat is driven determines whether a person needs to be licensed. Any person who drives a powered vessel for recreational purposes on NSW waters at a speed of 10 knots (18.5 km/h) or more must have a boat driver’s licence. Ten knots is the speed at which most accelerating boats will start to plane – that is rise up and skim on top of the water instead of ploughing through it. The exception is anyone who drives a personal watercraft (PWC) at ANY speed must have a PWC Licence.



So you don't need a license for you 50 foot yacht, but when you get in your dinghy and get it on the plane you do.

Can you clarify this please - it wasn't clear to me from the link.

Assuming I have a catamaran (sails and engine) that can exceed 10 knots under sail and under engines; do I need a licence in NSW and if so, it is only when motoring or when sailing also (and only when exceeding 10 knots?)?

In WA, it is somewhat simpler - every skipper of a registrable, recreational vessel, powered by a motor greater than 4.5kwp (6 hp) (RST vessel) will be required to hold a Recreational Skipper's Ticket.