Yet another COLREGS situation

[guyrj33]

Originally Posted by dpreacher

Washington State in the US Northwest now requires a boat license for vessels not human-powered and over 16 ft, if I recall correctly. Hopefully this will reduce the number of incidents caused by simple ignorance of the rules.

A licensing scheme will do nothing to reduce bonehead moves caused by speeding powerboats. It will generate revenue for the state and support another enforcement bureaucracy.
If law enforcement wants to change behavior, first they need to follow the laws and then enforce them fairly.
In this situation it would mean stopping and ticketing the speeding powerboat for unsafe operation.

[Montanan]

Originally Posted by Leighpilot

Remember that the standard Colregs apply only to boats operating in displacement mode. If he was planing he has no rights and must just give way to the slower boats. At least that how in remember it from my Merchant Navy days. Which were a long time ago.

I only know of one set of COLREGs. As to the applicability of the rules, well the first rule explains such.

—INTERNATIONAL—

PART A—GENERAL
RULE 1

Application

(a) These Rules shall apply to all vessels upon the high seas and in all
waters connected therewith navigable by seagoing vessels. Emphasis added.
(b) Nothing in these Rules shall interfere with the operation of special
rules made by an appropriate authority for roadsteads, harbors, rivers, lakes
or inland waterways connected with the high seas and navigable by
seagoing vessels. Such special rules shall conform as closely as possible to
these Rules.

As to the USA, there are Inland rules as allowed under Rule 1(b):

—INLAND—

PART A—GENERAL
RULE 1

Application

(a) These Rules apply to all vessels upon the inland waters of the United
States, and to vessels of the United States on the Canadian waters of the
Great Lakes to the extent that there is no conflict with Canadian law.
(b)
(i) These Rules constitute special rules made by an appropriate
authority within the meaning of Rule 1(b) of the International
Regulations.
(ii) All vessels complying with the construction and equipment
requirements of the International Regulations are considered to be in
compliance with these Rules.

Furthermore:

RULE 3

General Definitions

For the purpose of these Rules, except where the context otherwise
requires:
(a) The word “vessel” includes every description of water craft, including nondisplacement craft, WIG craft and seaplanes, used or capable of being used as a means of transportation on water.
(b) The term “power-driven vessel” means any vessel propelled by
machinery.
(c) The term “sailing vessel” means any vessel under sail provided that
propelling machinery, if fitted, is not being used.
(d) The term “vessel engaged in fishing” means any vessel fishing with
nets, lines, trawls or other fishing apparatus which restrict maneuverability,
but does not include a vessel fishing with trolling lines or other fishing
apparatus which do not restrict maneuverability.
(e) The word “seaplane” includes any aircraft designed to maneuver on the
water
. . .

(m) The term “Wing-In-Ground (WIG) craft” means a multimodal craft
which, in its main operational mode, flies in close proximity to the surface by
utilizing surface-effect action.

The status of being on or off plane, only is of issue as to the rule for safe speed, such displacement or plane status does not factor into the rules for navigation or stand on / give way status.

—INTERNATIONAL—
Steering and Sailing Rules
RULE 6

Safe Speed

Every vessel shall at all times proceed at a safe speed so that she can take proper and effective action to avoid collision and be stopped within a distance appropriate to the prevailing circumstances and conditions.
In determining a safe speed the following factors shall be among those
taken into account:
(a) By all vessels:
(i) the state of visibility;
(ii) the traffic density including concentrations of fishing vessels or any
other vessels;
(iii) the maneuverability of the vessel with special reference to stopping
distance and turning ability in the prevailing conditions;
(iv) at night, the presence of background light such as from shore lights
or from back scatter of her own lights;
(v) the state of wind, sea and current, and the proximity of navigational
hazards;
(vi) the draft in relation to the available depth of water.
(b) Additionally, by vessels with operational radar:
(i) the characteristics, efficiency and limitations of the radar equipment;
(ii) any constraints imposed by the radar range scale in use;
(iii) the effect on radar detection of the sea state, weather and other
sources of interference;
(iv) the possibility that small vessels, ice and other floating objects may
not be detected by radar at an adequate range;
(v) the number, location and movement of vessels detected by radar;
(vi) the more exact assessment of the visibility that may be possible
when radar is used to determine the range of vessels or other objects
in the vicinity.

[Capt. Mike Maurice]

There is only one issue and it is simple.
Follow the rules. You have no control over what any other vessel may or may not do. The other vessel may have a dead man, literally, at the helm and be out of control.
The only real rule is don't get in a collision.
Follow the rules, until such moment that a collision will become inevitable. At which time, the next rule comes into play: take whatever action is necessary to avoid a collision.
If you have a collision and you have followed the rules, you have a good chance of not being held at fault.
If you avoid the collision then, you have by definition followed the rules.

All of this can be avoided by taking action early enough that no collision can possibly come about.

In other words, if you don't want to have to worry about the rules, don't get near other vessels, period.

Someone will undoubtedly chime in and point out that stay off the water is also a solution.

In general, this is how the courts will judge these situations.

[crazyhorse]

Some good advice in here and some misunderstandings. The word is collision. The law applies where there is the LIKELIHOOD of a collision but it comes with some caveats. Some vessels are "constrained by their draft" and your 40 foot power boat if he needed the centre of the channel should have had the appropriate day shape or lights on ...but who does other than large ships. Some vessels require a minimum amount of flow over the rudder to maintain stearage so can not comply with the no wake rule or 5 knots particularly if there's current or wind. In all circumstances a overtaking vessel must keep clear. Always assume you have not been seen and WAIT to conduct a maneuver where there is sea room to do so. One mentioned damage from a tug in a small harbour whilst berthed. First call should be to the harbour master but if like here in NZ you never see them, always tie along side assuming the worst can happen. Usually if you ask the locals they will say do or don't tie up there. In NZ the commercial guys see their ticket as a license to roar in and out of harbours and having no police on the water, do so with impunity so we setup with lots of springs and fenders, quite often sitting on the gunwhales with legs out to fend off! I avoid commercial wharfs for this very reason.There is the "cover thy arse" rule. If under power with sail up, stick a black upside down triangle in your rigging telling those who know their day shapes you are under power. It covers that legal aspect but we have never bothered, just learnt to spot the idiots and keep away. Some (including us) anchor with our "anchor ball" displayed, some twit hits us (which has happened) it's a question the insurers might ask but it's worrying when others ask what it's for! Basically guys, if in doubt, keep away from the big boats, we NEVER assume they have seen us and we NEVER act like we are the "stand on vessel". Always made our intentions clear and early with "definit" course changes to avoid confusion.

[dannc]

Originally Posted by dpreacher

Washington State in the US Northwest now requires a boat license for vessels not human-powered and over 16 ft, if I recall correctly. Hopefully this will reduce the number of incidents caused by simple ignorance of the rules.

I am not in WA state, but out of curiosity, I checked the course. I was expecting the usual very simple licensing scheme that is next to useless but I was pleasantly surprised at the course work. It looks very detailed. I only saw one thing I would quibble over.

It certainly SHOULD help. Hopefully.

Later,
Dan

[PaulBartomioli]

Originally Posted by Rob_P

I have joined in the discussion of the 2 most recent threads on this subject, but would like some input on another situation that recently happened to me.

Facts:

Channel Islands Harbor in California has a "T" shaped harbor mouth. You can only exit from the harbor to the north or south because there is a breakwater across the mouth of the harbor.

There are currently dredging operations going on with some sort of large discharge outlet occupying the north entrance to the harbor. Some traffic can/does go through but most traffic is currently using the south entrance to avoid the discharge apparatus.

There are piled rock jetty's on each side of the harbor leading toward the breakwater which limit visibility for smaller craft to the right/left as they leave the harbor.



Situation:

I'm a new sailor taking lessons in a Catalina 22. We were motoring with the main up toward the harbor exit with plans on taking the south exit as usual. I had an overtaking sailboat behind, also motoring with the main up. The tide was out making the channel narrower than at any other water level so I was staying toward the center of the channel for both keel clearance and to avoid the discharge thingy to my starboard that was noisily spraying water.

A non commercial motor vessel, approx 1/8 mile outside the harbor, was approaching the harbor entrance at a fairly fast speed. I estimate maybe 15 knots or so but I'm not positive of that, just that it was a lot faster than I was going. He was to my port side. His boat was between 30 and 40 feet long.


What happened:

The motor vessel to my port passed across my bow, went between me and the breakwater then turned to pass between me and the discharge unit, and then threaded the needle between me and the overtaking sailboat behind.

I enjoyed the thrill ride of his wake as we bounced through it.


Analysis:

This turned out to be a "2 motor vessels crossing" situation but should have been a "2 vessels approaching head on" situation. I was to his starboard and was, under the rules for either situation, the stand on vessel. Giving way would have required that I either turn to starboard, potentially cutting off the overtaking sailboat behind me and/or grounding on the side of the channel or hitting the discharge thingy. Turning to port, into the crossing motor vessel would have potentially resulted in a head on collision.

My status as a motor vessel would have been unable to have been determined by the power boat early on because of the jetty blocking his view. However my main was up and that was above the height of the jetty and should have been visible to the power boat as I approached the harbor mouth. The sailboat behind me was also motoring with his main up and that boat was at least 30 feet or so long with a taller mast. Both of our sails should have been visible over the top of the jetty. Our propulsion status from his point of view would at that time have been either sail powered or undetermined.

There was sufficient depth and room for the powerboat to pass on my port side as he entered the harbor. It might have been tight, but I'm absolutely positive he could have done it with several feet to spare between his boat and mine. We were, at minimum, 30 - 40 feet away from the jetty on his side. I would like to say there was 40 - 50 feet between us and the jetty but can't be sure of that after the fact. The jetty slope is fairly steep and there would be 3 - 4 feet of clear depth as close as 10 feet away even at low tide.

All I could do at the moment the power boat decided to cross my bow was stand on until I had enough room to steer to port and pass behind his stern. I have no idea if the sailboat behind me said unkind words out loud or not.


The dilemma and need for advice:

I'm not really concerned about who was right, and who was wrong, I was the stand-on vessel and doing my part under the rules although I only know this after reflection - I did not know this at the moment. Yet I keep thinking about it and wondering if I did the right thing. As a noob I don't have the automatic reaction speed to act quickly when things get crazy. What actually happened was that I froze for about a minute, and then turned to port after he was out of my way.

Which now raises the dilemma; can I trust that other mariners will act according to the COLREGS or is it total anarchy out there? And, if it's anarchy, then is the only real purpose of the COLREGS nothing more than a device used to assign blame after the fact?

I read your post and the first page of responses. Based on threads such as this, there is nothing new to be contributed. Personally, I believe you give the PB captain too much credit. IMO, he did not care about ColRegs, IF he knew them. Did he have someone on watch communicating to him about the traffic? My guess is no. IF he did, he is an ass, to put it politely. When the smoke clears all that matters is YOU took responsibility for what was happening and did your part to avoid swapping paint. You learned a valuable lesson. YOU are responsible for your seamanship. Your "noob" status had no bearing. You were the more experienced captain that day.

[StuM]

Originally Posted by Leighpilot

Remember that the standard Colregs apply only to boats operating in displacement mode. If he was planing he has no rights and must just give way to the slower boats. At least that how in remember it from my Merchant Navy days. Which were a long time ago.

First time I've ever heard that misconception trotted out.

I suspect you are confusing two meanings of the word "plane" Planing mode of a hull versus Seaplanes and WIG craft

"The term “Wing-in-Ground (WIG) craft” means a multimodal craft which, in is main operational mode, flies in close proximity to the surface by utilizing surface-effect action. " (which is "sort of like" a "plane")


Rule 18:
(e) A seaplane on the water shall, in general, keep well clear of all vessels and avoid impeding their navigation. In circumstances, however, where risk of collision exists, she shall comply with the Rules of this Part.
(f) (i) A WIG craft shall, when taking off, landing and in flight near the surface, keep well clear of all other vessels and avoid impeding their navigation;
(ii) A WIG craft operating on the water surface shall comply with the Rules of this Part as a power-driven vessel.

[upstateny]

I assume the COLREGS will be used in court of law to determine who is at fault and who is going to jail when someone dies.


I am 20+ year member of the National Ski Patrol. Skiing/Riding also has rules. When people die someone will be blamed. Sometimes they go to jail for 7 years when someone dies. This is especially true when excessive speed is involved. As you probably know kinetic energy increases non-linear with speed, which is what kills humans. The kinetic energy for 15 kts compared to 10 kts is significantly more than 50% increase for speed.

[Znightflyer]

Originally Posted by Scorpius

If your story is accurate and unbiased (as it appears to be) the skipper of the incoming power boat was an idiot. A sensible person would have slowed or stopped outside to give you and the following sailboat the clear use of the channel until you were past and he could go in with the whole place to himself: no problem. That would have been both consistent with COLREGS and common sense, and courteous.

That you were bounced around by his wake is also a red flag to me. Isn't there a speed limit or go slow, no wake rule coming in there? My memory is that that harbour is HEAVILY regulated and I'd be astonished if there is no speed limit.

We have many very tight, busy harbours and harbour entrances around here (Westview comes to mind) and entering vessels are USUALLY very good about waiting outside until exiting vessels are clear - although we also have problems with high breakwaters (and with 16' tides they are REALLY high at low tide) obscuring vision of all but the very largest power boats.

Maybe the fast pace of life in Southern California just doesn't allow for such patience and courtesy

Wouldn’t it be nice if everybody knew and followed the COLREGS. Wouldn’t it be nice if everybody drove and followed all the DMV rules, whose drivers usually are licensed.

Rule number boating- one don’t hit anything. Follow the rules but understand that near busy harbors operated by the majority of the boaters who don’t know the rules, probably never heard of Colregs. Remember California allows bikers to split the lines. Doesn’t surprise me that inconsiderate boaters do the same thing in the harbor.

When there’s an accident either on the road or at sea is when the regulations Will be used to determine who was at fault. I haven’t witnessed anybody been cited with a citation for failure two follow the COLREGS except in a sailing race. There isn’t an option to “protest” bad behavior

[captain38]

When encountering small boats under way, I always operate under PYA rules, not Colregs - PYA = protect your ass. I have lost count of the number of times I have had right of way under Colregs and avoided disaster by being defensive and giving way.

[Scorpius]

Originally Posted by dpreacher

Washington State in the US Northwest now requires a boat license for vessels not human-powered and over 16 ft, if I recall correctly. Hopefully this will reduce the number of incidents caused by simple ignorance of the rules.

Canada too. Although enforcement is pretty scarce. Our Coast Guard does not have enforcement powers (they are primarily search and rescue) and the Horsemen (RCMP) are pretty thin on the water.

[Scorpius]

Originally Posted by captain38

When encountering small boats under way, I always operate under PYA rules, not Colregs - PYA = protect your ass. I have lost count of the number of times I have had right of way under Colregs and avoided disaster by being defensive and giving way.

Me too! And COLREGS supports that. Each vessel MUST take all reasonable action to avoid collision. Unfortunately even that can break down with several vessels in tight quarters - as in this situation.

That the instructor wasn't too upset gives me some comfort that there was enough space to maneuver.

[Scorpius]

Originally Posted by guyrj33

A licensing scheme will do nothing to reduce bonehead moves caused by speeding powerboats. It will generate revenue for the state and support another enforcement bureaucracy.
If law enforcement wants to change behavior, first they need to follow the laws and then enforce them fairly.
In this situation it would mean stopping and ticketing the speeding powerboat for unsafe operation.

And with a licensing scheme in place they could also hit him with not having the license. Law Enforcement LOVES to lay multiple charges. It's more efficient and gets their stats up!

I support licensing (as we have in Canada and other places). MOST boaters will follow the rules and get the license. Around here it is strongly encouraged by the dealers when you buy your boat.

A lot of "bonehead" situations occur out of ignorance or lack of situational awareness - not necessarily deliberate bad behavior!

[requiem]

Originally Posted by guyrj33

A licensing scheme will do nothing to reduce bonehead moves caused by speeding powerboats.

IIRC all of these state licensing schemes are not technically licensing schemes but "boater education requirements". Thus there's a requirement to take a class and pass a test. I've only done the California one, but I've heard in some places (New Jersey?) it actually required an in-person exam.

These aren't particularly difficult, but do at least mean the person's been exposed to the basic concepts (carbon monoxide dangers, road rules, etc). I also wonder how much of an "eternal september" situation we may have compared to previous centuries, where traditional expectations of tutoring and mentorship are no longer as common.

I agree with the other bits; licensing is useless without some sort of enforcement regardless of whether by the community or by authorities.

[StuM]

Originally Posted by captain38

When encountering small boats under way, I always operate under PYA rules, not Colregs - PYA = protect your ass. I have lost count of the number of times I have had right of way under Colregs and avoided disaster by being defensive and giving way.

Another one that calls himself "captain" and doesn't know the basics.

Let me answer that for you. You have NEVER had "right of way" under COLREGS.

Taking appropriate avoidance action as the stand one vessel if the give way vessel is not acting appropriately is REQUIRED under COLREGS