You are responsible for your wake...

[gonesail]

Originally Posted by sailndoug

Is the discourteous behavior on the water increasing or is it just me getting crankier as I age?

no. there have always been more than enough self absorbed power boaters around. but give them a jet ski and they turn into maniacs

[CaptTom]

Funny how this thread about discourteous behavior has turned, well, discourteous.

We've all been waked, and we've all gone on a rant about the idiot who waked us.

But generalizing, name-calling and otherwise arguing among ourselves brings us no closer to a solution.

[peter loveridge]

here's something that hasn't been mentioned. Big wakes damage shorelines. In places like the ICW the borders of the channel end up being swept into the dredged channel. This costs a fortune to fix and inconveniences everyone

[montenido]

Originally Posted by boatpoker

I beg to differ. As a sailor and a powerboater I see the spectrum of IQ below that of a can of ravioli equally distributed between power and sail.

I agree with Boatpoker. I am also a sailor and powerboater. Plenty of idiots on both sides of the fence. How about sailboaters crossing 50' in front of you at 0200am, all lights blazing, and nobody on watch (or answering the radio)? This happened several times to me on the Baja-Haha. Or sailboats tacking directly in front of me while we are both heading the same direction, with plenty of room?

I'm not defending the idiots on MVs that wake people, but sailors do stupid stuff too.

Just sayin'.

Cheers, Bill

[rubberfish]

Having to share the water is an awful lot like camping.
Some go to ride dirt bikes and later drink by the fire and tell exaggerated stories,
while others go to just sit quietly on a trail among the birds, eat granola and marvel.

And both of these activities are perfectly acceptable behaviours for outdoor enthusiasts.

Name calling is not necessary. Developing some coping skills is.
We all have to share this space. On forum, on the hard and out on the water.

[senormechanico]

Originally Posted by rubberfish

Hello again.

I'm not here to make enemies.
But people, please leave your whining and crying for Facebook.

You are doing a pretty good job of it though...

[rubberfish]

We're all entitled to our opinions. Thank you for sharing yours.

[boatpoker]

Originally Posted by rubberfish

So yes, I know plenty about waves. I cross the ocean in a tender.

Your inexperience is showing again. The discussion is "wakes" not "waves".

[Woodland Hills]

Originally Posted by montenido

I agree with Boatpoker. I am also a sailor and powerboater. Plenty of idiots on both sides of the fence. How about sailboaters crossing 50' in front of you at 0200am, all lights blazing, and nobody on watch (or answering the radio)? This happened several times to me on the Baja-Haha. Or sailboats tacking directly in front of me while we are both heading the same direction, with plenty of room?

I'm not defending the idiots on MVs that wake people, but sailors do stupid stuff too.

Just sayin'.

Cheers, Bill

My peeve is following sailors who slow to under 3kts in a no wake zone when my minimum speed at idle is 4.7kts. This means I am constantly going in and out of gear and steering with differential thrust. I suppose it never occurs to them that a 63’ lwl has a significantly faster no-wake speed then a 27’ waterline, or perhaps they are going as fast as they can already. Any way, it can be annoying to follow them for miles and miles of narrow channel where passing is not an option unless both boats work together. (Not having a working vhf on the sailboat is a contributing factor.) Its not like it happens all the time, but it does often enough to take note of.

Let the flaming begin.........

[Montanan]

Originally Posted by Woodland Hills

My peeve is following sailors who slow to under 3kts in a no wake zone when my minimum speed at idle is 4.7kts. This means I am constantly going in and out of gear and steering with differential thrust. I suppose it never occurs to them that a 63’ lwl has a significantly faster no-wake speed then a 27’ waterline, or perhaps they are going as fast as they can already. Any way, it can be annoying to follow them for miles and miles of narrow channel where passing is not an option unless both boats work together. (Not having a working vhf on the sailboat is a contributing factor.) Its not like it happens all the time, but it does often enough to take note of.

Let the flaming begin.........

Just like when driving, slower vessel traffic should be courteous and keep to a side and to coordinate their overtaking, and / or use the occasional turnouts to allow following vessels to pass.

But on the other hand, on roadways that have long stretches where passing is disallowed in Montana, one will see road signs that say: Be courteous, please don't tailgate.
Perhaps they should also have signs in narrow channels that state: Please don't sailgate.

Have you tried sound signaling the slower traffic your intent to overtake? Have they responded, either in acceptance of understanding your intent, or denial [five toots]? Note: Many mariners do not know the meaning of sound signals, of just DGAS.

Different vessels have distinct minimum speeds required to maintain steering control and different speeds at which they form wakes.

The definition of no wake speed varies by jurisdiction.

One such definition [taken from Oregon].

Slow–No Wake” means operating a boat at the slowest speed necessary to maintain steerage and that reduces or eliminates waves that appear as white water behind the boat.

Note the AND distinction.

The speed required to maintain steerage also depends on wind and current.

Other zones may proscribe a specific maximum speed limit. Note: That indicated speed is the upper limit, one can travel slower, just as is the case with vehicles. But again I suppose there are unsafe slow speeds also. 5 mph on the freeway or highway, being too slow under normal conditions and too fast under adverse conditions.

As to enforcement this issue is a very subjective matter whether you are traveling above no wake speed. Ditto as to the subjective nature of the determination of appropriate speed of each boat operator.

As to following boats in a narrow channel it is very much like following a herd of cattle traveling down the highway in Montana. Ya going to go as slow as the slowest cow, or worse, the slowest cow / calf pairing which slowest pairings changes a lot because a calf will get separated from the cow and they will stop or reverse direction in an attempt to locate each other again. Your vessel may have a higher no wake speed but those ahead of you don't, the answer there is to get a slower boat or cause your boat to operate slower.

In that alternative, one could just deploy a speed reducing drogue so as to reduce your no wake speed to be equal to or slower than that of the slower no wake speed boat(s) ahead so as to not need to frequently shift from forward propulsion to idle. The prop wash will typically yield steerage at a slower speed for a boat slowed due to pulling a load, such as a speed reducing drogue. Doing such simple deployment makes the trip much less

[Montanan]

Originally Posted by Woodland Hills

My peeve is following sailors who slow to under 3kts in a no wake zone when my minimum speed at idle is 4.7kts. This means I am constantly going in and out of gear and steering with differential thrust. I suppose it never occurs to them that a 63’ lwl has a significantly faster no-wake speed then a 27’ waterline, or perhaps they are going as fast as they can already. Any way, it can be annoying to follow them for miles and miles of narrow channel where passing is not an option unless both boats work together. (Not having a working vhf on the sailboat is a contributing factor.) Its not like it happens all the time, but it does often enough to take note of.

Let the flaming begin.........

Woodland Hills, I got to pondering your post further. I fully understand and can empathize with the peeve.

4.7kts at idle speed is a pretty rapid advancement pace. I would think that you would have considerable difficulty navigating in tight quarters, what with an engine running at either a high idle speed, or perhaps your transmission ratio favors high speed propeller rotation or you have a high pitch propeller. Something or multiple things are making your vessel want to go slow, fast.

What is your engine's warm idle rpm? If the engine is idling fast, e.g., >1,000 rpm then when you shift the transmission there must be quite the clunk and lurch of the vessel.

[rubberfish]

Originally Posted by boatpoker

Your inexperience is showing again. The discussion is "wakes" not "waves".

To compared to most on this forum? Yes Sir, I am inexperienced. And I've never claimed otherwise.
The last couple of years I've been traveling in and out the mouth of the river along with the usual traffic.
Tugs, barges, big ships carrying sea cans or cars carriers etc. Yes their wakes 'bout swamp me in my 11ft zodiac.
And so do waves, which I chose to include in my post. I voiced an opinion. You don't have to like it. You're just nitpicking.
The thread is about wakes. I'd like to shut up and let it run it's course. Leave me alone please.

[secrabtree]

I didn't mean to imply that idiots were only powerboaters and not sailboaters - both types of boaters include idiots. But sailboat idiots can't perform their idiocy as fast or as often - sailboats cannot go as fast, and, not going as fast re unable to repeat their idiocy as often. Also, whether it is in boating, cars, or motorcycles, except while participating in organized racing, it is the people with less knowledge and eperience that want to go too fast for conditions - and sailboats cannot go as fast and thus do not attract those wanting to go too fast. Of course it may be my lack of experience that has allowed this 84 year old sailor that started sailing late in life at 33 and has never made a long ocean passage (not longer than 2200 miles non stop) that has allowed me to draw such silly conclusions.

[Montanan]

Originally Posted by rubberfish

To compared to most on this forum? Yes Sir, I am inexperienced. And I've never claimed otherwise.
The last couple of years I've been traveling in and out the mouth of the river along with the usual traffic.
Tugs, barges, big ships carrying sea cans or cars carriers etc. Yes their wakes 'bout swamp me in my 11ft zodiac.
And so do waves, which I chose to include in my post. I voiced an opinion. You don't have to like it. You're just nitpicking.
The thread is about wakes. I'd like to shut up and let it run it's course. Leave me alone please.

Stay safe out there and enjoy the waters.