Sailing and Mental Health

[hoppy]

I suspect that solo sailing is not good for one's mental health

Check out this guy, he is clearly living life on the edge of sanity

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g060dpmr320

[El Pinguino]

Solo my left foot.... he had crew but he ate him.... check out 2.10

Poor chap was writing out an SOS or something when he was put on the pot....

[hoppy]

Originally Posted by El Pinguino

Solo my left foot.... he had crew but he ate him.... check out 2.10

Poor chap was writing out an SOS or something when he was put on the pot....

I don't consider someone chopped up and stored in the freezer and in the cooking pot a crew member, more like a stew member

[hoppy]

After arriving in NYC

[MarkJ]

Originally Posted by hoppy

I suspect that solo sailing is not good for one's mental health

Check out this guy, he is clearly living life on the edge of sanity

Looks sweet and harmless to me

[Pelagic]

Originally Posted by boatman61

Day tripping maybe.. but a multi day passage not so sure.. and definitely not solo..

OH come on Boatie! solo sailing is good for ones mental health.[emoji1]

https://youtu.be/5AvwHZF0RAc

[thomm225]

Originally Posted by MarkJ

It's a bit funny reading advice here from people without (known) problems to people who have.

It's a bit like seeing a pregnant woman and telling her diet tips.

And the people who profess to know something about these conditions stand in the corner screaming at each other.

Its just funny.

I have a number of friends with 'depression/bipolar etc'. I use '' as they're pretty broad terms, arnt they? Each person is an individual, and each of my friends with it are affected in a different way. Each responds in different ways. So I guess some would not like sailing long passages, but I guess some would relish it, and the further from people the better.
Someone mentioned Crowhurst. Because he did what he did it does NOT mean every person under treatment will do the same.

BTW Winston Churchill was perused by the Black Dog, so don't tell me they can't be very, very high achieving. Winston Churchill and Manic Depression: A fatal curse or the root of his genius? | Bipolar Lives

The problem with being bipolar and sailing singlehanded WAY offshore say 1500 miles is that you never know when the person isn't going to relish it anymore

It's usually cyclic for bipolar folks for some daily but the point is one could totally love sailing and being alone for a while and then suddenly not.

Or he could get a thought going and his mania could start to over analyze said thought and this could cause a problem UNLESS it was something positive like figuring out a way to fix something that is broken on the boat that is needed then he just wears himself out fixing the problem which is a good thing because his energy is now lower and he's back to normal again. The mania side can last for hours or days depending.......

Example: Dr Kay Redfield Jamison who was bipolar used to run circles in the parking lot during multiple 12 hour shifts as an intern when she was on the manic side

Being super manic isn't good when stuck way offshore on a small boat. Then if the mania overwhelms the person he can get so worn down he is then way tired and depressed. Not good either. That's why it's called bipolar.

When I mention Crowhurst, I stipulated that sailing single handed way offshore MAY not be good for those of us that are high energy and have overactive imaginations

On the other hand, if you are a qualified racer, it you could be fine because you'd be spending all your energy and imagination on winning. Same if you are way into repair and maintenance. (or navigation) You can most probably stay busy with repairs and PM's etc in a positive way


Btw, Dr Kay Redfield Jamison's book is called AN UNQUIET MIND for a reason.

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by Pelagic

OH come on Boatie! solo sailing is good for ones mental health.[emoji1]

https://youtu.be/5AvwHZF0RAc

Only for those of us who know we're insane.. its all the folks who think they're normal that have problems..

[tomfl]

I can recall reading "The Strange Last Voyage of Donald Crowhurst" when it first came out as I was interested in multihulls even back then. Maybe that is some type of mental health issue given the time frame. I have to say I got a completely different take on any mental health issues he may have suffered from.

The lesson I learned from the book is boats cost more money than you expect them to (something my Mom confirmed from my Dad's boat owning experiences) and in the case of Crowhurst he had spent all his money on a boat he really did not have the experience sailing and was facing financial problems from the onset of the race.

Say what you want about mental health issues but I spent some time with the VA mental health section setting up some computer systems and in talking to the mental health professionals there one thing seemed to be common to all most all those suffering from mental health issues; money problems. In fact some folks who would normally not have any mental health issues developed them due to money problems.

Bottom line is if Crowhurst had the money to properly set up his boat and was not facing financial disaster there almost certainly would have been a different outcome. Does anyone here think it is a good idea to set off on an around the world race as your shake down cruise for a new boat. Even before starting the race Crowhurst was facing money problems, and his realization that if he was found out to have been a fraud not only would he have more money problems but a lot more problems as well were probably more responsible for his demise than any mental health issues that were certainly compounded by his failure in the race.

Bottom line is money, or lack of it, was more responsible for Crowhurst's death than any mental issues he had. And this is a good lesson for all of us; buy a boat with in your financial means. Because if you don't you may develop mental health issues or make the ones you already have worse.

[Cadence]

Originally Posted by MarkJ

It's a bit funny reading advice here from people without (known) problems to people who have.

It's a bit like seeing a pregnant woman and telling her diet tips.

And the people who profess to know something about these conditions stand in the corner screaming at each other.

Its just funny.

I have a number of friends with 'depression/bipolar etc'. I use '' as they're pretty broad terms, arnt they? Each person is an individual, and each of my friends with it are affected in a different way. Each responds in different ways. So I guess some would not like sailing long passages, but I guess some would relish it, and the further from people the better.
Someone mentioned Crowhurst. Because he did what he did it does NOT mean every person under treatment will do the same.

BTW Winston Churchill was perused by the Black Dog, so don't tell me they can't be very, very high achieving. Winston Churchill and Manic Depression: A fatal curse or the root of his genius? | Bipolar Lives

A good post Mark!

[Lake-Effect]

Originally Posted by tomfl

... in talking to the mental health professionals there one thing seemed to be common to all most all those suffering from mental health issues; money problems. In fact some folks who would normally not have any mental health issues developed them due to money problems.

...Crowhurst was facing money problems, and his realization that if he was found out to have been a fraud not only would he have more money problems but a lot more problems as well were probably more responsible for his demise than any mental health issues that were certainly compounded by his failure in the race.

Bottom line is money, or lack of it, was more responsible for Crowhurst's death than any mental issues he had.

There's certainly a correlation - you find very often that people with debilitating mental illness also have money problems - but that's true of almost any significant disability. If something prevents you from gainful employment, or you fall into a financial mess (gambling, credit overreach, bad investment, uninsured disaster or medical crisis) ... you will have money problems in this world.

Money problems are certainly a significant stressor and the number one cause of relationship failures. But I don't agree that money problems alone are a significant cause of mental illness. It's more likely that an underlying illness causes people to make bad choices, which often lead to money problems, which like any large and unresolved conflict might then trigger breakdowns or other acute mental crises.

I don't think "The Race" made Crowhurst ill; I think he had a mental illness to begin with, or at least the potential for developing it, and the pressures from his participation in the race drove him to a crisis which he ultimately found unresolvable, and he committed suicide. But I guess we'll never know for sure.

[thomm225]

Originally Posted by Lake-Effect

There's certainly a correlation - you find very often that people with debilitating mental illness also have money problems - but that's true of almost any significant disability. If something prevents you from gainful employment, or you fall into a financial mess (gambling, credit overreach, bad investment, uninsured disaster or medical crisis) ... you will have money problems in this world.

Money problems are certainly a significant stressor and the number one cause of relationship failures. But I don't agree that money problems alone are a significant cause of mental illness. It's more likely that an underlying illness causes people to make bad choices, which often lead to money problems, which like any large and unresolved conflict might then trigger breakdowns or other acute mental crises.

I don't think "The Race" made Crowhurst ill; I think he had a mental illness to begin with, or at least the potential for developing it, and the pressures from his participation in the race drove him to a crisis which he ultimately found unresolvable, and he committed suicide. But I guess we'll never know for sure.

Exactly, there's much more to mental illness than money problems alone.......

And sailing single handed offshore just isn't healthy for some.

[tomfl]

Originally Posted by Lake-Effect

SNIP

I don't think "The Race" made Crowhurst ill; I think he had a mental illness to begin with, or at least the potential for developing it, and the pressures from his participation in the race drove him to a crisis which he ultimately found unresolvable, and he committed suicide. But I guess we'll never know for sure.

Just a few blurbs from the wiki page on Crowhurst.

"During her pregnancy, his mother had longed for a daughter, and Crowhurst was raised as a girl until the age of seven."

"Due to family financial problems, he was forced to leave school early"

"In 1953 he received a Royal Air Force commission as a pilot,[3] but was asked to leave the Royal Air Force in 1954 for reasons that remain unclear"

"While he did have some success selling his navigational equipment, his business began to fail. In an effort to gain publicity, he started trying to gain sponsors to enter the Sunday Times Golden Globe Race. His main sponsor was English entrepreneur Stanley Best, who had invested heavily in Crowhurst's failing business. Once committed to the race, Crowhurst mortgaged both his business and home against Best's continued financial support, placing himself in a grave financial situation."

"Crowhurst had a very short time in which to build and equip his boat while securing financing and sponsors for the race. In the end, all of his safety devices were left uncompleted; he planned to complete them while underway. Also, many of his spares and supplies were left behind in the confusion of the final preparations. On top of it all, Crowhurst had never sailed on a trimaran before taking delivery of his boat several weeks before the beginning of the race."

Crowhurst early child hood experience being raised as a girl, a history of family financial issues, problems in the military, a failing business, serious lack of prep on an untested boat with multiple problems, and his false position reports resulting in his seeming to be leading the race (something that would be exposed once he arrived at the finish), all would be enough to worry anyone; especially someone who expected to be exposed as a fraud.

My take is a whole lot of things combined to produce this disaster and Crowhurst's mental health issues and his money problems both contributed to his going to sea in an ill prepared boat that seemed destined to fail to anyone with the least bit of sailing knowledge.

There is a huge difference between sailing solo and competing in a round the world race that your financial well being depends on. One might well help your mental state while unless you did well racing the other might harm your mental state.

[salticrak]

Originally Posted by tomfl

I can recall reading "The Strange Last Voyage of Donald Crowhurst" when it first came out as I was interested in multihulls even back then. Maybe that is some type of mental health issue given the time frame. I have to say I got a completely different take on any mental health issues he may have suffered from.

The lesson I learned from the book is boats cost more money than you expect them to (something my Mom confirmed from my Dad's boat owning experiences) and in the case of Crowhurst he had spent all his money on a boat he really did not have the experience sailing and was facing financial problems from the onset of the race.

Say what you want about mental health issues but I spent some time with the VA mental health section setting up some computer systems and in talking to the mental health professionals there one thing seemed to be common to all most all those suffering from mental health issues; money problems. In fact some folks who would normally not have any mental health issues developed them due to money problems.

Bottom line is if Crowhurst had the money to properly set up his boat and was not facing financial disaster there almost certainly would have been a different outcome. Does anyone here think it is a good idea to set off on an around the world race as your shake down cruise for a new boat. Even before starting the race Crowhurst was facing money problems, and his realization that if he was found out to have been a fraud not only would he have more money problems but a lot more problems as well were probably more responsible for his demise than any mental health issues that were certainly compounded by his failure in the race.

Bottom line is money, or lack of it, was more responsible for Crowhurst's death than any mental issues he had. And this is a good lesson for all of us; buy a boat with in your financial means. Because if you don't you may develop mental health issues or make the ones you already have worse.

You must be clairvoyant. My problem at the moment and that bitch Debbie north of me.

[salticrak]

Originally Posted by MarkJ

It's a bit funny reading advice here from people without (known) problems to people who have.

It's a bit like seeing a pregnant woman and telling her diet tips.

And the people who profess to know something about these conditions stand in the corner screaming at each other.

Its just funny.

I have a number of friends with 'depression/bipolar etc'. I use '' as they're pretty broad terms, arnt they? Each person is an individual, and each of my friends with it are affected in a different way. Each responds in different ways. So I guess some would not like sailing long passages, but I guess some would relish it, and the further from people the better.
Someone mentioned Crowhurst. Because he did what he did it does NOT mean every person under treatment will do the same.

BTW Winston Churchill was perused by the Black Dog, so don't tell me they can't be very, very high achieving. Winston Churchill and Manic Depression: A fatal curse or the root of his genius? | Bipolar Lives

Good work mate.