Want to Rent: YOU! (Expert Epoxy Laminator) [South Florida]

[flyingfin]

Originally Posted by Chotu

The other side. West Coast.

Still not enough info,,,,,Naples? Tampa? Crystal River?

[captnknopf]

another option/idea would be to mold release (I frequently use packing tape) the section that needs the bond, make the part out of poly (vinyl) ester resin, after it cures, separate it and epoxy the poly part to the epoxy part.
Just a thought

[Chotu]

Originally Posted by captnknopf

another option/idea would be to mold release (I frequently use packing tape) the section that needs the bond, make the part out of poly (vinyl) ester resin, after it cures, separate it and epoxy the poly part to the epoxy part.
Just a thought

Hmmm. I had never thought about this. In my mind I was thinking of building up the part wet on wet, all epoxy, so there was only one secondary bond. Just the bond from the wet part to the hull, not a secondary bond to the hull and to the part.

This idea has some merit and maybe I could find help to epoxy it on after it’s built. Maybe. It can’t come back out after it’s built, but maybe.. just maybe.. it can come loose and be moved around enough to get a bunch of epoxy in there under it to bond.

Here is the structure of the chain plate for clarity.

[Chotu]

Uh oh!!!

Did posting the actual design involved scare everyone off?

[Sand crab]

I like the design. Originally I visualized them on the top like and upside down u-bolt. This looks really simple to build. Do you have any on top?
There's lots of structural epoxy adhesives btw for prefab and then gluing on.

[captnknopf]

The actual chain plate lamination will be in tension but the attachment will be in sheer. because of this, I think you will want a laminate in something less stretchy (like unidirectional graphite) to reduce stretch near the top of the chain plate. Since it is a big area, the sheer will not be too bad with a stiff laminate. There is a chance you could even build it and attatch with something flexible like (heaven forbid) 5200
Just thinking

[Chotu]

Originally Posted by Sand crab

I like the design. Originally I visualized them on the top like and upside down u-bolt. This looks really simple to build. Do you have any on top?
There's lots of structural epoxy adhesives btw for prefab and then gluing on.

Aren’t you the one that saved my life suggesting I use PLMaxPremium and Fuze-it? Those two products have been working like CRAZY keeping the most difficult things bonded. Thank you!

What do you mean by structural epoxy adhesives? Different than normal epoxy but similar? No amine hardener part?

What do you mean by “do you have any on top?” I’m confused at that part.

[Chotu]

Originally Posted by captnknopf

The actual chain plate lamination will be in tension but the attachment will be in sheer. because of this, I think you will want a laminate in something less stretchy (like unidirectional graphite) to reduce stretch near the top of the chain plate. Since it is a big area, the sheer will not be too bad with a stiff laminate. There is a chance you could even build it and attatch with something flexible like (heaven forbid) 5200
Just thinking

The laminate schedule for the chain plates are specified in exacting detail, but out of respect for the designer, I didn’t share that part. There are half a million layers of uni in all sorts of engineered configurations.

It’s hard to envision how it would be able to pop free of the hull and move out of the way for bonding after building the part. How do you see that happening?

I see it popping off the mold release on the hull, but it can’t really go “up” out of the deck because it’s huge and the hole in the deck you push each layer of uni through while building is tiny.

It’s not going to be flexible either. It’ll be stiff as hell. So it won’t easily open up.
Thoughts on that?

Because I could have my girlfriend epoxy it to the hull if I’m just needing to use epoxy as an adhesive.

[Tin Tin]

Why not stainless chain plates like 95% of other cats, removes all your stress levels for a few KG.

[Chotu]

Originally Posted by Tin Tin

Why not stainless chain plates like 95% of other cats, removes all your stress levels for a few KG.

I know. I just like cool stuff. LOL

I also see this as my “forever boat”, so I want something permanent. I guess stainless can last a long time though.

But they still need to be epoxied into place.

[rslifkin]

Originally Posted by Chotu

I know. I just like cool stuff. LOL

I also see this as my “forever boat”, so I want something permanent. I guess stainless can last a long time though.

But they still need to be epoxied into place.

Would they? If you went stainless, I'd be inclined to laminate a big mounting pad to the hull (maybe remove the inner skin in an area where the bolts will go, de-core and make it solid glass). And then bolt them on. Then if you have to get one off in 20 years, it's not a nightmare.

[Chotu]

Originally Posted by rslifkin

Would they? If you went stainless, I'd be inclined to laminate a big mounting pad to the hull (maybe remove the inner skin in an area where the bolts will go, de-core and make it solid glass). And then bolt them on. Then if you have to get one off in 20 years, it's not a nightmare.

Can anyone expand on this?

I have been plans for stainless chain plates, but there are a lot of extra epoxy specified laminations involved. Basically, exactly like this. A big mounting pad.

I already took care of the core of this area in anticipation of maybe using stainless. It is not the normal core. It’s a special high density core that was put in there instead.

What I have trouble picturing in my mind is the sheet on those bolts. It seems like they would pull through the fiberglass and core to me. Maybe I’m wrong.

[Manateeman]

There are a number of different ways to do this job. I’d talk to the guys at Plexus.
Titanium or silicon bronze not stainless if you want to go metal, but I’m not sure how much hull work would be involved as it’s a core hull ?
You might try the boat design net for engineering help.
Mark

[jimbunyard]

Originally Posted by Chotu

I have 2 pieces of my boat that require epoxy that I can’t do myself for obvious reasons.

1) The composite chainplates

2) A 12” wide bulkhead and attachment point for the bow tube beam in each hull


You or your friend, acquaintance or coworker:

*Absolutely a pro at laminating. These chain plates are many, many layers of uni and epoxy that go wet on wet all day long. Should know how to manage epoxy as it kicks off to get lots done without sanding in between. It’s the chainplates, so wet on wet is the way to go anyway.

*Ok to be out here on the project in south Florida for a week or 2, in the hotel at the marina.

*Open minded. I have some special techniques that must be followed to ensure I live to pay you. Ha ha. I need the final layer over the epoxy to be vinylester, which will encapsulate the evil resin and allow me to re-enter the boat. Otherwise, it takes close to 6 months for me to be able to re-enter.

The boat

It’s actually a pretty exciting boat to work on. Very high performance.


If you know of anyone with professional, neat, thorough and efficient laminating experience in epoxy, please let me know. Looking to hire in 4-6 weeks, so the rig can go on.

I will fly the right person in. But has to be a pro at this. Chain plates are one of the most important structures in the boat. The bow tube attachment points are right up there too.

Originally Posted by Chotu

Hmmm. I had never thought about this. In my mind I was thinking of building up the part wet on wet, all epoxy, so there was only one secondary bond. Just the bond from the wet part to the hull, not a secondary bond to the hull and to the part.

This idea has some merit and maybe I could find help to epoxy it on after it’s built. Maybe. It can’t come back out after it’s built, but maybe.. just maybe.. it can come loose and be moved around enough to get a bunch of epoxy in there under it to bond.

Here is the structure of the chain plate for clarity.

Seems an interesting, maybe even intriguing job.

Your intitial post brings up some questions; the subsequent drawing even more...

In no particular order.

From previous posts I assume the both the interior and exterior are already finished, so the finish will have to be removed and after the chainplates are completed, the work will have to be faired and refinished?

Why wasn't the work done previous to doing the deck. This means that, to be done efficiently, a good helper is necessary.

Has the slot to install the layers been cut?

Regarding your drawing, is the pattern shown for the glass representative of all the individual layers?

To me it seems the 'fan' portion should increase in size with the first layer being a quite a bit wider than shown, decreasing gradually to slightly wider than the maximum width of the pin section of the chain plate, and covered completely with a final vinylester, as per your spec.

Fabricating the plate and then installing it seems a recipe for disaster; ensuring a uniform bond, cutting a slot large enough to accomodate the 'fan' or 'flange' portion of the CP, the potential for 'hard spots' at the joint between the edge of the CP and the existing hull, and a few other lesser issues all set off flags.

I wouldn't consider using anything other than epoxy.

Do you have a planned laminate schedule? Would be curious to know what it is.

It seems you plan on glassing the SS wear tube in place? Unless you have a specific reason, for permanence of the CP itself, it seems to me that the sleeve should be removable, maybe glued in place under tension with some kind of 5200-like adhesive sealant, or preferably to me mechanically secured in place with pins and washers at each end, which would also retain the rod eye pin, eliminating the (slight) chance of crevice corrosion and the more likely chance of damaging the CP's if or when removing a worn sleeve becomes necessary.


In other words, I might be interested, and am available at this time. Get in touch here if you want and we can talk by phone.

[rslifkin]

Originally Posted by Chotu

Can anyone expand on this?

I have been plans for stainless chain plates, but there are a lot of extra epoxy specified laminations involved. Basically, exactly like this. A big mounting pad.

I already took care of the core of this area in anticipation of maybe using stainless. It is not the normal core. It’s a special high density core that was put in there instead.

What I have trouble picturing in my mind is the sheet on those bolts. It seems like they would pull through the fiberglass and core to me. Maybe I’m wrong.

Keeping bolts from pulling through is just a matter of spreading the load enough and making sure the hull is beefed up appropriately in that area. Think about how you keep a cleat from pulling through, crushing the deck, etc. and just scale that up to a chainplate and its higher loads.