Additional Costs When Buying a Boat

[cAmstar]

Hi All,

My wife and I are dreaming about moving to a life on the water for a few years and I'm trying to throw some numbers into a spreadsheet to analyze the costs. Can anyone help me out on how much to budget? Here are the circumstances:

- Boat to buy: 40' catamaran, approx. USD $200k
- We want to circumnavigate so assume we buy an owner's version
- We are based in Canada and assume we want to buy in Europe where we will start our journey

What other costs should i incorporate?

x Sales tax? (VAT)?
x Boat inspection. How much is this?
x Any brokerage fees when buying a boat?
x Can we typically buy with a subject condition? ie. subject to financing, 60 day subject period. I assume they pay for mooring during this period.
x Should i budget flight and hotel to go and inspect boat?
x I assume i'll need a place to moor the day i take possession. Or does a yacht brokerage usually permit a grace period where i could keep the boat there while getting ready
x How much is moorage in a country like Croatia or Greece

The last question is are we going to be able to find an owner version, blue water-ready catamaran in a place like Croatia? Or do most of these make their way to places like Tahiti and Australia where they go up for sale?

Thanks!
CS

[Joh.Ghurt]

Your budget is very optimistic for catamarans Europe. I'd have thought 200k € won't get you much more than a tired charter catamaran in the Mediterranean. I'll assume you did your research and already have a few interesting candidates.

• VAT: Could be, depends on the boat. Check the details in the ads.
• Boat inspection: 1000-2000 €
• Brokerage fees are usually paid by the seller in Europe. At least that's how I experienced it.
• About financing, you'll have to ask. Last time a friends of mine tried it, the seller wasn't thrilled.
• Filling up the tanks and the fridge.
• Definitely plan to inspect the boat yourself if you don't have someone you trust to do it for you. You could travel to Europe a little earlier and get the boat sorted first.
• If the boat is in the water and has a berth which has been already paid for the month, they usually let you stay and often you can add another month or two without problems.

Things missing on your list:

• Registration fees with the nation of your choice and for the MMSI (VHF).
• Insurance
• Mandatory safety equipment by the new registration country. Assume the old stuff is all expired
• A budget to get your blue-water ready boat into a state where you feel safe to do go into blue-water.

[C420sailor]

I’d recommend a substantial emergency fund. Marine insurance policies are notoriously full of holes (LOTS of expensive things they won’t cover). Failures of things like diesels and such aren’t covered. You don’t want to find yourself stuck somewhere with a $10,000 bill and no way to pay it.

[LoudMusic]

This is a search for the word "cost" on the Wynn's YouTube channel.

https://www.youtube.com/c/gonewithth...rch?query=cost

Specifically:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OYZPx4sL5sk

[Chotu]

Yikes. The biggest cost of all is not even on the list.

The refit you’ll be doing to make sure it’s up to standard for your intended use.

That costs more than everything else on the list.

[cAmstar]

Thanks for the replies, this is exactly the sort of info i was looking for. And, sigh, yes, maybe our budget is too light for the boat.

I was listening to a older podcast recently that had an interview with a family who hit a reef with their CAT...i think it was in Fiji. The boat was toast, plus they had to pay the government $80k to dispose of the boat properly. The odd thing was that the owner had said their insurer called them just before they left Ecuador and dropped them. Is this normal? Unfortunately they didn't elaborate on why they were dropped. I'm asking because I want to look at worst-case-scenarios (beside dying of course!). Is insurance something that won't help much if the boat is lost?

[cAmstar]

@Chotu, I haven't yet looked at the refit costs...I have heard they are high and that was going to be the next area to look at. I'll be honest i'm scared to even start.

@LoudMusic, thanks for the post! I'll watch that today.

[Hesti]

Refit costs - currently approaching 100 % of what the boat cost new originally 27 years ago which equals around 20 ... 25 % of what a similar sized boat would cost new today. Give or take a few %. And still a lot of points that eventually should be done. And - if done by a yard - would drive the % further up.



This is not representative of course, but figures in that area are far from rare. To be on the safe side, for a boat 20 years or older, if it has seen use and has some maintenance backlog, 25 % of the cost of a comparable new boat today might be sensible for budgeting - assuming lots of work done by yards. For diy, it is less. But do not overestimate the abilities to do diy - it stats with slipping / craning, which you will not be able to do on a 40 foot cat. And not all boatyards allow diy.

[Chotu]

Originally Posted by cAmstar

@Chotu, I haven't yet looked at the refit costs...I have heard they are high and that was going to be the next area to look at. I'll be honest i'm scared to even start.

@LoudMusic, thanks for the post! I'll watch that today.

Unfortunately, refit costs will vary by the individual boat. They are the biggest cost however.

The saving grace is they can be spread out a bit over time.

[Jim145]

When buying a boat for a circumnavigation does it matter where you start from?
There might be something available in another location like, perhaps Hawaii or Fiji, that has already been fully equipped by the previous owner for a blue water voyage. Of course, some maintenance and equipment upgrades will probably still be required. However, it could be a lot less expensive than upgrading a boat purchased for cruising in the Med.

Maybe someone with more experience can chime in and point out why this would not be something to investigate.

[Joh.Ghurt]

Originally Posted by Jim145

There might be something available in another location like, perhaps Hawaii or Fiji, that has already been fully equipped by the previous owner for a blue water voyage.

Yes, that makes a lot of sense to start in a market where catamarans are more common.

[S/V Illusion]

My experience is kind of a cliché - it costs about twice as much as you plan. The capital cost of a used boat can sometimes be less than everything once you buy it which is one of the reasons people buy new boats.

[Shanachie]

Just a personal opinion but, at that budget, you could buy a much nicer cruising monohull.


I know cats are the thing these days, but they are pricey and have qualities that ensure you will keep on paying and paying and paying.


For example, many yards can not haul a cat that large. Many marinas will only accommodate you at 2X the going rate for slips. Then there are the saildrives and all of the $$$ headaches they cause.


Plus, many cats on the market have been through the wear and tear of charter duty. And companies such as Dream Yacht Charter (see the threads on this site) are selling the boats.


If money is no object, go for it. But, if you are trying to get the most for your available cash, there are better ways to go.

[dannc]

Originally Posted by cAmstar

Hi All,

My wife and I are dreaming about moving to a life on the water for a few years and I'm trying to throw some numbers into a spreadsheet to analyze the costs. Can anyone help me out on how much to budget? Here are the circumstances:
...

As well as asking here, go to the Morgan's Cloud website and start reading.

https://www.morganscloud.com/cruising-topics/

It is behind a paywall but well worth the money. There are articles on the costs of refits.

Another expense you have not mentioned is the cost to maintain the boat after the refit is complete. Morgan's Cloud has a spreadsheet that allows one to guestimate the cost based on boat displacement, quality of the work, who does the work, etc.

https://www.morganscloud.com/2014/07...ging-sailboat/

Later,
Dan

[LoudMusic]

Originally Posted by cAmstar

Thanks for the replies, this is exactly the sort of info i was looking for. And, sigh, yes, maybe our budget is too light for the boat.

I was listening to a older podcast recently that had an interview with a family who hit a reef with their CAT...i think it was in Fiji. The boat was toast, plus they had to pay the government $80k to dispose of the boat properly. The odd thing was that the owner had said their insurer called them just before they left Ecuador and dropped them. Is this normal? Unfortunately they didn't elaborate on why they were dropped. I'm asking because I want to look at worst-case-scenarios (beside dying of course!). Is insurance something that won't help much if the boat is lost?

Boat insurance is atrocious, and getting more difficult every year. I think it's worse for sailing catamarans than any other vessel type.

The main reason we have insurance is incase our boat damages someone else's property (liability coverage). Second is for a total loss scenario. Both of which we work hard to avoid. The only claims I think I'd make for repairs are something like lightning strike blowing out all the electronics, or the rig coming down for some reason. Those are high enough cost that the deductible makes sense. Little fiddly crap I'm not going to claim.

Get your insurance figured out before you waste too much time and money finding and buying a boat. It likely will be the most painful piece of the purchase process.