Affordable Passion

[laforge24]

My passion of owning a boat is at times wiped away when I read stuff on CF,
I 'crew' but this is not a easy nor continous hobby!
i am retired and would like nothing better than buying my own SV.
I am an experienced sailor, but have no license(s) when or/if needed.
would start in the med.(being french citizen but dutch nationality) and certainly expand that range to(much)further !!
So not talking 'bout boatprices or maintenance, what can I expect when I do this on an all year round base?
customs,paperwork,moorings,licences in diif.ports,insurances.
example; in france no license needed for SV, in CF I read in spain needed ?!
I should just go for it, instead of waisting 'precious' time,
mental blockage due to over-information, maybe only of intrest to europe-sailors.

[micah719]

Yes, I feel the same too sometimes.

The danger is assuming one has to do what everyone else does....in some things it is inescapable, but there are a lot of ways that you can get around problems without relying on big money. Convenience and status symbols cost money....

For instance, the huge costs of fitting out...with an engine and its associated gear, the bermudan rig, electronics and autopilots, lpg and refrigerators, aircon, fancy inflatables and outboards, flush toilets, marinas and moorings.

No engine, junk schooner rig, charts & sextant & windvane, alcohol/kero/solid fuel cooking, home canning, windscoops, hard dinghies for rowing and sailing, composting toilet, anchoring out.

Licenses seem to be necessary for commercial work...and they're never a guarantee of skill, sometimes a cover for lack of it.

Go for your dream, Laforge.....

[laforge24]

[QUOTE=micah719;1016146]Yes, I feel the same too sometimes.

The danger is assuming one has to do what everyone else does....in some things it is inescapable, but there are a lot of ways that you can get around problems without relying on big money. Convenience and status symbols cost money....

For instance, the huge costs of fitting out...with an engine and its associated gear, the bermudan rig, electronics and autopilots, lpg and refrigerators, aircon, fancy inflatables and outboards, flush toilets, marinas and moorings.

No engine, junk schooner rig, charts & sextant & windvane, alcohol/kero/solid fuel cooking, home canning, windscoops, hard dinghies for rowing and sailing, composting toilet, anchoring out.

Thanks for supporting words, seen any intresting boats GERMANY lately?

[sarafina]

Ah yes... affordable... well.... ; -)



But you can sail within a reasonable budget. It's all about making choices.

Do you want to be able to dink around and sail out for the afternoon by yourself? Race in local races with crew? Liveaboard and sail from a marina/moorage/anchor? Hoping to go for full on cruising and make that boat your platform for traveling?

How you want to use it will define how you go about doing it.

What are you plans in this regard?

[micah719]

Lol, I'm out in a little backwoods town, the nearest half-decent lake is an hour away by car and is a whopping 40ha in size. A little club there with around 40 boats, but rarely do I see anyone out there when I drive past on the way to the building site. Perhaps weekends are busy. Mostly 6m fibreglass bermudans, with a handful of smaller grp bemudans in a yard. Ho-hum, how dreary. At least one can fish there too, for pike and carp.

There is a fibreglass sailboat up on chocks not far from the centre of town, she is about 7m long, fin keel/semi-skeg ruddder, named Tara from Hamburg. She has been there a long time. I would not like to own her!

There would certainly be many nice boats in Germany, but far away from here. The Chiemsee would be one place to look, haven't been there for a long time. Otherwise, up north around the North Sea/Baltic, or the Bodensee in the south, or the Danube. But I grew up on Moreton Bay, Qld Australia, so all these puddles and rivers don't do much for me.

At the moment I am preparing to build a Caledonia Yawl in lapstrake stitch & glue ply, with dipping lug/standing lug rig and oars. Cheap, versatile, effective, sturdy. Ian Oughtred designed her, and he has several other very nice plans and there are some lovely examples of them sailing. Check the web, easy to find. Wild dreams of fleeing Europe in her and getting back to the south seas, either back to Aussie, or New Zealand. I like the Kiwis. Not sure there will be anything left of Aus worth coming back to.

There are some interesting videos on Youtube of an Englishman sailing in the Mediterranean to the Balereacs in his self-built 15ft ply boat "Onawind Blue". The plans are free on the web, called "light trow".

If I were considering a larger boat sourced in Europe, I'd look further north to Scandinavia, or perhaps Holland or Belgium. I hear licensing in Belgium is easy, but would check that...Belgium is a strange place. I'm half Belgian, so there you go, proof.

[laforge24]

Originally Posted by sarafina

Ah yes... affordable... well.... ; -)



But you can sail within a reasonable budget. It's all about making choices.

Do you want to be able to dink around and sail out for the afternoon by yourself? Race in local races with crew? Liveaboard and sail from a marina/moorage/anchor? Hoping to go for full on cruising and make that boat your platform for traveling?

How you want to use it will define how to go about using it.

What are you plans in this regard?

Hi Sarafina
Then we would have to go into detail, I am not in need for luxury, maybe heating because once aboard I will not leave quickly, in other words yes it would be a small sized live-aboard, 33ft min. preferably bigger or cat,
fast but singlehanded, I know what I want/need but it,s mainly the red/tape afterwards, and Micah, I don't have the time to build my own anymore, want to enjoy now!

[Ex-Calif]

Originally Posted by laforge24

My passion of owning a boat is at times wiped away when I read stuff on CF,
I 'crew' but this is not a easy nor continous hobby!
i am retired and would like nothing better than buying my own SV.

If you crew you know some skippers - talk to them (but not too much lest you get more confused)

Originally Posted by laforge24

I am an experienced sailor, but have no license(s) when or/if needed.
would start in the med.(being french citizen but dutch nationality) and certainly expand that range to(much)further !!
So not talking 'bout boatprices or maintenance, what can I expect when I do this on an all year round base?
customs,paperwork,moorings,licences in diif.ports,insurances.
example; in france no license needed for SV, in CF I read in spain needed ?!

Start where you know it is easy and you know it works. Maybe charter in the med first and talk to some people at yacht brokers and marinas.

Work out the details later...

Originally Posted by laforge24

I should just go for it, instead of waisting 'precious' time,
mental blockage due to over-information, maybe only of intrest to europe-sailors.

Yes - you should just get going, for sure. Time is moving along.

Remember - probably thousands are already doing it, so it must be and can be done.

[laforge24]

Thanks for the poss.replies I will continue my research, talking to captains is sometimes
also negative, them having expensive repairs, difficulty finding moorings, my personal idea was to try avoid yearly moorings but being on the way,,,
sounds idealic

[micah719]

You could also go for a pocket cruiser, and moor it on a trailer. Self-build isn't a realistic option you admit, but there are ocean-capable pocket-cruisers out there to be had for money.

[laforge24]

I already looked at that possibility, and european versions of trailer-sailors are very small(6m.something)+ that I found out that suitable trailers are not supposed to touch salt water and thus need hauling!!! imagine doing 4 trips p.year= 8 haulings= same price as mooring!! Also I think that when I find the right boat, I will be wanting to live on her,
that's why the abroad/license question came in, if I step over that one it will depend on the right boat for the right price, I don't mind working on her, but she has to have a decent rig/sails, so I keep hunting down the web,,,

[micah719]

Try a search CF for British registration; I seem to remember there was a discussion about this very thing and UK flag seemed attractive. Perhaps Channel Islands, in which case you might want to ask the member known as DOJ (David Old Jersey).

Trailers can handle saltwater if they are properly painted/glavanised or both, and get approriate maintenance. Bearings seem to suffer worst.

[laforge24]

Would there be a difference between British or French registration, that would make customs buzz; english boat, french citizen with dutch passport, HAoo
Once the boat found can registre france, no problem there,,
yes the bearings don't like salt and would have to be cleaned immediately, whilst you are setting up for a nice sail, to avoid corrosion,
because this is a world-site I see a lot of intresting boats come by in the US that make me drool, and that being a TAXissue I have to focus on european possibilities,
with the advantage to find one with a mooring to start with! as I don't live close to the sea, this would be very handy, lol, trying to see the funny side of my search

[micah719]

Would there be a difference between British or French registration, that would make customs buzz; english boat, french citizen with dutch passport, HAoo

Relax, it's all EU. To make customs really happy, paint the boat in German colours and greet them in Italian. Wear the Greek National Dress, breathe heavily on them after eating a Hungarian salami, and offer them a glass of Port. Then bring out your collection of meticulous Belgian paperwork, with some Euro bills attached in case they are Romanian.

Seriously....not sure where one would find a good liveaboard mooring in France. It will cost a lot....this is Europe. Check the Channel Islands...I read that the Dorgogne department where you live attracts the most British immigration. Perhaps you can blend in amongst them. Drink warm beer and wear a terry-toweling hat, wave a union jack, should be a briiliant disguise. Any anchorages suitable for liveaboards in the river estuaries?

[Pete7]

Each year when we visit the Channel Islands and Northern France we see the French out sailing in just about anything that floats it's not a hobby it's far more important than that for them. Whole families in tiny boats just out there doing it on the tinest of budgets and good for them too. Have you noticed the only people who live in the middle of France are the English, the French live near the sea so they can go sailing.

Moorings need not be expensive marinas, for example the River Rance has tousands of yachts using mooring bouys. The flooded valley up from Arzal would be another choice with easy access to the gulf of Morbihan with huge areas available just to drop the anchor for a few days.

A trailer sailer would make sence, how about a Wharram catamaran? okay not quite turn up and launch, but can be trailered and cheap to buy and maintain. Watched a young couple with one arrive in St Peter Port a fornight ago, powered by an outboard, all very low budget but they seemed to be really enjoying themselves and had a huge deck space for the length to relax on.

In Europe we just don't seem to have the problems with customs that are often published on here, afterall we are all in the EU so free to travel anywhere in europe without constantly having to clear in and out of a country. The US could take a lesson here

Worth registering it and have minimum insurance etc, but it won't be an issue, other than the Belgiums throwing their toys out of the pram over red diesel. Check the licencing for france with boats fitted with engines over 10hp. There was a reason why everyone in france buys 9.9hp engines.

Pete

[laforge24]

I sailed in on Brest from the Azores aboard an Amel, bought in Martinique, in June,
welcomed most seriously by a huge customs trawler, luckily no drugs found and paperwork within reason, otherwise not even on CF now.....
That same captain showed me free moorings near Brest, in case of needing to do a lot of work, otherwise to far from here, looking at sparksman&stephens 32ft with landmooring and cheap hauling, intresting boat, but owner not replying, same with suncat 30 near Exeter, not replying and obviously without mooring being UK.
No license needed for sea but needed for river, I read somewhere,,
wish I was back on atlantic, sun, wind and fishing,
ps, mooring only needed when back, live aboard elsewhere ????? med still big !
Ta Micah