Buying a boat in Holland

[crankysailor]

Hi all,

so I have a boat that looks good enough on paper to justify taking a trip to go check her out. The boat is in Holland sitting on the hard right now for the winter season and is registered under dutch flag. I am dealing directly with the owner but communication while functional, is rather basic due to language barriers.

So I will be flying there in a couple of weeks to see her and the owner. I am wondering about what things I should look for while buying a boat in Holland.. what I should ask the owner to provide and in general how a boat purchase there works, etc, particularly with the prospect of registering the boat in Germany after the purchase.. so if there are any germans in the forum who have experience buying a boat in the Netherlands from a private owner.. any info and tips would be greatly appreciated

[Lizzy Belle]

I'm in the Netherlands (Holland is not a country ... ), let me know if I can help you out with anything.

Native Dutch speaker (doh ) but have never registered a boat in Germany. Or anywhere, for that matter.

Paperwork in the Netherlands is usually just a sales contract, unless the boat is registered at the kadaster (English info). That's important to know -you wrote she's registered under Dutch flag- so check with the owner on that one.

I'd be happy to talk with the owner for you, and report back in English to you

[crankysailor]

Originally Posted by Lizzy Belle

I'm in the Netherlands (Holland is not a country ...), let me know if I can help you out any.

Thanks!.. you know I actually know that but when I write or speak in English I tend to refer to it as Holland.. particularly cause when you talk in English to some dutch natives, quite often they refer themselves to the country as "Holland".. so.. anyhow.. Netherlands it is. Sorry! :-)

So yes.. well.. just wondering what pitfalls I should look for over there.. just draft up a purchase contract.. but then I am thinking...hm.. I probably would need it in german for the registration. So both languages?.. what is done in these cases in the Netherlands. Would a contract in German be valid under dutch law?.. I am guessing no?..

I read something about checking if the boat has a lien on it (i.e. because the owner still owns money to a bank for example).. but .. how does one go about checking that?.. would that be in the boat registration papers?..

Is there anything else I should know when buying a boat in the Netherlands?.. I would be more specific if I knew what to ask

Thanks!

[crankysailor]

Sorry I think replied too quickly only after reading the post only on the email notification from the forum.. I didn't see you had mentioned the "Kadaster" already. I will definitely check on that. So one just asks the owner.. and then?.. should he not provide a paper which proves he is not registered in the Kadaster and owns money, etc?.. sorry I guess I am used to Germany where there is a bit of paper for *everything*

[Lizzy Belle]

Originally Posted by crankysailor

I probably would need it in german for the registration. So both languages?..

Probably
I've never registered a boat in Germany so not entirely sure - you'd have to check for the German rules with whatever organisation does the registration there.

Originally Posted by crankysailor

I read something about checking if the boat has a lien on it

Yes, that would be the Kadaster (see previous post). If she is registered, the owner can provide you with the reg.number so you can check with the Kadaster. He'd have to cancel that registration and provide the paperwork for that too - if not, the boat will legally still be his.

Normally, a Kadaster registration is transferred (bit of a hassle and costs about 600 euro or so) IF the new owner wants it registered. But since you want to register her in Germany, a transfer is probably not what's needed.

But check with the owner first, most boats aren't registered.

[crankysailor]

Originally Posted by Lizzy Belle

Yes, that would be the Kadaster (see previous post). If she is registered, the owner can provide you with the reg.number so you can check with the Kadaster. He'd have to cancel that registration and provide the paperwork for that too - if not, the boat will legally still be his.

Ok.. so he would cancel that registration after the purchase?.. but.. what if he doesn't? or should I go to the Kadaster office and show the contract and cancel that registration?.. or should he cancel the registration before he gets the money?

[Lizzy Belle]

First, check to see if she's registered at all -- most aren't.

If it is, he needs to cancel AND provide the official documents of the cancellation BEFORE you pay a dime ... because only the registered owner can cancel (or transfer) it.
They don't care about any contract or proof of payment you may have.

Edit
Can you post or PM me a link to the boat, if she's advertised on the internet somewhere?

[crankysailor]

Originally Posted by Lizzy Belle

First, check to see if she's registered at all -- most aren't.

If it is, he needs to cancel AND provide the official documents of the cancellation BEFORE you pay a dime ... because only the registered owner can cancel (or transfer) it.
They don't care about any contract or proof of payment you may have.

Well.. but then what if an owner says the boat is not registered even though it actually is.. isn't that a possibility? for example if he still owned money on the boat and he wanted to hide that? Not that I have any reason to believe he is being dishonest or anything. Just want to make sure I cover all the bases!

[Lizzy Belle]

That would only work if he somehow managed to hide the brand mark.
Extremely unlikely, so not really something to worry about.

You could probably check with the Kadaster if you have doubts, using ship + owners name. Never did that myself, tho, as it's not a real concern

[trentz]

There are two types of Boat Registration in Holland:

1. Kadaster Registration, this is Government controlled, and exspensive (€600,= + Notary Fees of €400,=) Boat will get Identity kit engraved in the hull or a chip, this way the boat will be traced back to the owner anywhere in the world, also a "Zee-Brief" is added this is an offcial Document from the Authorities stating that they 'guarantee that the information on it is correct, i.e. you are the owner.this is sometimes required in foreign ports........)

2. This is more likely, Registration by means of an I.C.P. ( international Certificaat Pleziervaartuig.) this is achieved through the ANWB / Watersportverbond Nederland ( AA / RYA in the UK I suppose) Cost is € 27,50. and can be done online. Must submit Passport / Proof of Residience if outside The Netherlands and Insurance Certificate with proof of Payment all in your name..

Draw up a Boat Contract of Sale and Purchase ( available online....to print).
Get the Owner, Yourselves and a Witness (Harbour Master? or the like to sign it.

When paying the money do it through the Official Bank Channels and insure that at the money transfer form the box 'Reference' you put down the Boat Make and Name. Now the there is a clear trail of the origin en destination of the funds and what they were used for.

Hope this helps, I am both Dutch and British, live in the UK and bought my boat in Holland.

[verkerkbr]

Originally Posted by Lizzy Belle

I'm in the Netherlands (Holland is not a country ... ), let me know if I can help you out with anything.

Native Dutch speaker (doh ) but have never registered a boat in Germany. Or anywhere, for that matter.

Paperwork in the Netherlands is usually just a sales contract, unless the boat is registered at the kadaster (English info). That's important to know -you wrote she's registered under Dutch flag- so check with the owner on that one.

I'd be happy to talk with the owner for you, and report back in English to you

If the vessel is officially registered in the Scheeps Kadaster it can be that there is still a mortgage on the boat. Then the Bank is the Owner !

Further there has to be a proof the VAT (BTW) has been paid in an EEC country. Does not matter in which country. Otherwise you can get problems if you return from a journey outside the EEC.

It is also recommanded to take a surveyor to look at the boot.

It is also wise to make a contract of the purchase with all the details of the boat.

And if it is GRP construction look for signs of osmosis or osmosis treatment before.

Regards,

Bram

[Stag71]

Hello Lizzy Belle,
can you tell me if there are public records for Kadaster that may be viewed online? or do you have to contact them direct?

regards
Michael

[trentz]

Last time I looked you could but there is a fee.
Raoul.

[Stag71]

Thanks Raoul.

[Lizzy Belle]

Originally Posted by trentz

2. This is more likely, Registration by means of an I.C.P. ( international Certificaat Pleziervaartuig.)

While accepted (and needed) in many countries, it's a bull sh*t document, really (note in Dutch it's called "officieus" -- semi-official. It's something the Dutch created since we have no real boat registration other then the Kadaster.

An ICP isn't an issue when buying a boat here. Doesn't matter if the owner has one, which is unlikely unless he used to sail international waters. Most boats that stay in the Netherlands don't have one (why spend money on a document you don't need?).

Anyway - contract trumps ICP so even if an owner would renew it after selling the boat, that's not an issue. His money to waste.