Buying boats in Greece 2021

[digitalnomad]

I am over in Greece and looking at boats. I am getting different stories from every Broker that I am talking too.

The key points of confusion are:

As a UK passport holder (born in England), can you buy a boat in Greece in 2021 without paying VAT?

If a boat is purchased without VAT does the boat need to be removed from the EU within 30 days (All brokers say no, the transit log 18 months starts at the moment of purchase, perhaps this is a Greek thing?

Suppose a UK person buys a boat and then registers' it in perhaps the UK or Poland (The latest trendy flag). Does the Greek seller have to pay extra to deregister the boat? Some say the seller needs to pay up to 1600 euros, and some brokers are even asking the buyer to cover this.

Can a UK passport holder register a charter company to allow that company to receive the VAT-free transfer of commercial registration from the seller to the buyer? What would be the consequences of going this route to avoid paying the VAT and avoid taking the boat out of the EU every 18 months?

What are all the other details I am missing, Greek Flag versus another flag when paying the new fees to sail Greek waters, VAT-free mooring, fuel, repairs, supplies from the chandlers ...

[boatman61]

I have always considered VAT to be a Once Only payment unless it's an ex-charter boat where tax has been waived for business purposes or.. a boat that has been out of EU waters for more than 3yrs making it liable for re-importation.
If brokers are trying to screw VAT out of you then it's (to Me) either a scam or something particular to Greece to raise revenue.
They have been fond of raising various fee's since they got bailed out.
As for applying it to UK citizens just tell them it's for export and reclaim the VAT.. then sail to Turkey for a couple of weeks and return under the 18mth loophole.

[digitalnomad]

Originally Posted by boatman61

I have always considered VAT to be a Once Only payment unless it's an ex-charter boat where tax has been waived for business purposes or.. a boat that has been out of EU waters for more than 3yrs making it liable for re-importation.
If brokers are trying to screw VAT out of you then it's (to Me) either a scam or something particular to Greece to raise revenue.
They have been fond of raising various fee's since they got bailed out.
As for applying it to UK citizens just tell them it's for export and reclaim the VAT.. then sail to Turkey for a couple of weeks and return under the 18mth loophole.

I am seeing charter boats (direct for the company) and private with commercial licence which means that the VAT was never paid. Most of the private boats are not on the market as the owners are stranded in the home countries.

Also, I learned today that the Greek government is now taxing private sellers when they sell their boats with VAT paid.

Now there are new fees just to sail in Greek waters (annually or per month). What every happened to freely sailing the seven seas?

[Anders]

VAT is a tax on transactions from a company to a person or to another company.

If you're buying from a person there should not be VAT due unless you're also importing the boat with the purchase but if you're buying from a company the company should charge you VAT perhaps it would be legal to sell without VAT if you were outside the EU VAT area like Turkey?
Not sure about greece but not charging VAT or charging it but not delivering it to the country coffers tend to be a very quick way of getting in serious trouble.

[meirriba]

Buying from charter company you are liable to pay VAT.
You can have transit log document and keep the boat in EU waters for up to 18 months before payment.
You can reset the count by taking the boat to a non-EU country (e. g. Turkey or Albania)
You can freeze the count by leaving the boat (and personally leaving the EU) and surrendering the Transit Log and boat papers to the customs until your return to the EU/vessel.
If you want to register the boat in a different country, be it in the EU or otherwise, you or the seller need to deregister it.
Who pays for the process is a matter if negotiation.
If you change registration, you may also need to get new radio station license and MMSI number from your new home flag country.

[psp2psp2]

If I was you I’d narrow my search. Look for boats being sold privately on which VAT has been paid, AND which are currently registered in an EU state. Yes, I know there are a lot of ex-charter boats on the market, (on which the previous owners never paid the tax) but with some patience and time I think you’ll find others. (I did a quick online search and found a few French and Italian boats for sale in Greece) .

Also, brokers might not be the best source of information on this topic. There are a few agents in Alimos, Lavrion and Corfu with a lot of experience de-registering, re-flagging, exporting, VAT issues etc.

myageofsale.com

[SteveSadler]

We bought our boat in Croatia 2015. The charter company had a customs agent handle the sale for us. She (customs) told us to sail out of Croatian waters (out of sight of customs was inferred), return and check in.
That started the 18 months. No tax of any kind was asked for. When we cleared out of Spain for Gibraltar 2 years later, customs asked proof of time on the hard, where the boat has been, etc. They analyzed and challenged every document but eventually(days) later let us go.

[keithw88]

There are no doubt many in this forum who have professional expertise and experience in this field, but (as one who maybe could be included in that category), I urge you to talk to entities who really know what the latest developments are. It seems things are evolving in this area. The Cruising Association and the RYA have people working on such issues full-time, talking directly with Govt depts, so it would be sensible to talk to them; well worth the subscription if you are not a member.
My own experience is that you had better have a VAT receipt with you if you visit Italy or France, and that France might be a cheaper place to pay VAT on a used vessel as they have allowed a vessel's value for tax purposes to be depreciated according to age.
You should also check whether a vessel on which UK VAT has been paid can be used 'long term' in EU waters without needing tax to be paid in an EU country.

[Joh.Ghurt]

Originally Posted by digitalnomad

As a UK passport holder (born in England), can you buy a boat in Greece in 2021 without paying VAT?

It depends. If you're a resident in the EU - No.
If you aren't resident in the EU - yes.

Your passport doesn't matter. Even EU-citizens can buy boats without VAT and not having to pay it immediately if they aren't resident in the EU.

Originally Posted by digitalnomad

If a boat is purchased without VAT does the boat need to be removed from the EU within 30 days (All brokers say no, the transit log 18 months starts at the moment of purchase, perhaps this is a Greek thing?

Never heard about this one, but it could be a requirements, specially if the boat has already been in EU waters for some time. Better plan on it just to be safe.

Originally Posted by digitalnomad

Does the Greek seller have to pay extra to deregister the boat?

To my knowledge, the seller usually deregisters the boat from his name the buyer is responsible to register it. Make this part of the the contract and there will be no misunderstandings.

No idea about the Charter company. For this kind of trickery, you usually need professional help and it involves costs which might exceed the money saved.

[jha]

Try these links for further info from the RYA and the hopefully attached document from yachting Monthly. Where the boat was on 31 Dec 2020 also affects whether you need to use the 18 month transit log. If it can be proved to have been in the EU then the boat may be able to have an unlimited transit log. Also remember currently one can only stay in the EU in effect 90 days over the summer. (90 days in 180 days period)
https://www.rya.org.uk/newsevents/ne...m_medium=email
https://www.rya.org.uk/knowledge-adv...ns-next.aspx#0
If doc not attached search for
yachting monthly europe cruising after brexit
http://www.yachtingmonthly.com/news/...g-after-brexit
Best of luck.