Delivery Crew Pays?

[Sondor]

This is purely academic for me at this point, but the breakdown seems pretty clear to me:

1) Paid Captain (or yourself as Capt. if qualified/able). No gray area here
2) 1-2 paid crew member(s). Travel expenses to the boat is on their dime. Travel home from the destination is on me
3) 1 volunteer/newbie crew member* with a "tip" of free travel home for doing a good job

Nobody but the owner pays for provisions. That's the least we can do for people who are honestly working towards our personal goal.

* If you are the owner and not qualified to Captain the boat, then YOU are the volunteer and the others are the paid help.

Simplistic? Perhaps -

The "right" thing to do - I think so

[carstenb]

The operative word here is "delivery". The boat HAS to be moved from A to B.

If the owner is sailing it and wants crew to come along - there are three options
1- crew pay own transportation and shares expenses like food etc. To me this is ok if the crew is buidling miles or looks at the trip like a holiday (a working holiday)

2- Crew pay own transport but owner pony up with everything else - again - for someone building miles etc this is a good deal. for both part. owner gets crew members for a reasonable cost, miles builders get miles

3- Crew gets paid (yeah I wish!)- few and far between, but if the owner is paying a wage then the crew needs to have a wealth of experience etc, which would not necessarily be the case in option 1 or 2

[hoppy]

This thread has given me an idea. I'll pay my model friend Denice to come on a delivery and sit around looking pretty

Then I will auction off the delivery crew positions to the highest and most desperate bidders

I voted "I think crew should pay me to come on my boat, I am worth it." with the qualification that "my deck fluff is worth it"

[Ziggy]

At what point does a "paying crew" become a "passenger"? Seems to me the answer to this question has some serious legal implications. Perhaps one of the lawyer CF members could comment.

[skipmac]

Originally Posted by Delancey

Ran across a few too many pay-to-crew adds I guess. Rubs me the wrong way.

Feel the same way myself. I can kind of rationalize an owner asking someone to pay to crew if the owner is just cruising and the "crew" spot is more like a passenger who stands watch and helps sail handling on a pure pleasure cruise. For a straight delivery charging is pure BS.

[Delancey]

"I'm going down to take a nap and will come back up in two hours to relieve you. Make sure the autopilot keeps this compass heading. If the wind changes or if you see any other boats just give a shout and I will come up. And don't fall asleep!"

Sounds to me like a task even a complete neophyte can accomplish, and a task worth paying food money for.

You want to be a Cowboy? Go to a dude ranch. You won't be scrubbing dishes, just doing the fun stuff. You read some of these pay-to-crew adds, yeah you'll be scrubbing dishes....

[Delancey]

Originally Posted by skipmac

Feel the same way myself. I can kind of rationalize an owner asking someone to pay to crew if the owner is just cruising and the "crew" spot is more like a passenger who stands watch and helps sail handling on a pure pleasure cruise. For a straight delivery charging is pure BS.

Who does this though, really? Who invites strangers on their boat to go "cruising" for fun? Why? Because they like strangers?

No, people do it because they have to. They have a boat that is too big for them to manage by themselves and is obviously too expensive, otherwise they wouldn't be nickle and diming strangers for food money and gas money when they should be paying for the service they are receiving.

I mean I could be wrong about that. Anyone out there who enjoys taking strangers sailing for fun, now's the time to chime in!

[skipmac]

Originally Posted by Delancey

Who does this though, really? Who invites strangers on their boat to go "cruising" for fun? Why? Because they like strangers?

No, people do it because they have to. They have a boat that is too big for them to manage by themselves and is obviously too expensive, otherwise they wouldn't be nickle and diming strangers for food money and gas money when they should be paying for the service they are receiving.

I mean I could be wrong about that. Anyone out there who enjoys taking strangers sailing for fun, now's the time to chime in!

Well I have taken relative strangers sailing a few times but certainly didn't charge them. It was just for the joy of sharing my love of sailing.

The last time was someone I ran into on this forum that happened to live in the same town. We traded a few emails and then met in person. He and his wife were just learning to sail so I invited them and their 4 year old out for a weekend trip.

But yes, those that are charging to take people sailing, 99% are doing it to support their habit on OPM (other people's money).

[s/v Beth]

This is an interesting topic, one that I face every year. I rate my crew in 3 levels.
1. Professional crew- known to me and dependable. Get paid every passage.
2. New sailors- good experienced help, but unknown. Get travel expenses.
3. Newbies- often there for the experience. Get food and a berth.

If my trip is 4 days or less I will take 1 of #1 and often 2 or either 2 or 3. If it is longer- I take 2 of #1.
I have tried passage making with just 2 and 3, and had some "near misses" as a result. Will solo before I do that again.
The most dangerous thing on a boat is a neophyte with a schedule.

[FamilyVan]

It's very situational. I keep my boat at the entrance to the welland canal. At my marina there is a cork board advertising deck hands to help you transit your boat through the canal (3 adult minimum for a transit). These delivery crew all charge and most know Canaling better than the skipper. They're mostly retired guys looking for beer money and something to do. If you don't want to pay- find your crew somewhere else. I would not consider me canaling your boat to be a favour to me.
So it depends on boat, crew skill level and Definitely voyage.
I know the St Lawrence Seaway and associated rivers and canals very well and I'm an excellent ship handler, so if I work for a yacht owner as delivery crew I'm usually doing most the ship handling and your paying me $300-500/day.

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[Wannabe-007]

If you had made at least a half-hearted attempt at creating an objective and sensible poll, you might have got better results.
However, that would require you to acutally want such results as opposed to just creating a soap box to stand on.

Paid delivery crews are just that.
It's standard fare, despite your feelings, for cruisers to allow people to join in thier experience and share costs.

Over 80% of crew wanted ads on dedicated sites will be looking for cost sharing (or better) crew.

It's frowned upon, and generally illegal for cruisers to do this for profit.

I just did a not-so-quick survey of the last handful of crew wanted ads here.
The results are not the easiest to interpret, but here goes.

Of the last 19 ads:
6 - did not state how costs would be handled (make your own assumptions)
6 - said costs would be shared; 1 asked for $40USD, another stated €50.
4 - requested either women, young boys, or a gay/bi couple
1 - offerred a trade of crewing services for food
2 - offerred to pay the crew (and at least one of these was a proper delivery).


So... it seems that most cruisers either expect a cost contribution or some 'other' form of payment.

[GoingWalkabout]

I think taking advantage of people is (not) nice. Another thought would be to pick up some starving economic refugees and have them work the sails for free rice and beans. After all you are providing a roof over their head and a lifestyle improvement. Mind you having a crew of desperate people in servitude may cause problems. Its been a while since slave crewed ships were common place. Mind you if your having the slaves pay you that is something the diabolical Captains of the past would scratch their heads in disbelief and say how did you do that.

All tongue in cheek aside. I think if a boat owner can't pay even just the crews expenses there is a serious question in my mind about the financial well being of such an owner. I would also be asking myself what other things on the boat have been decided on based on money or the lack of rather than seaworthiness and safety.

[Wannabe-007]

Thats like saying "If the shop can't afford to let me have this ice cream for free there must be maggots in thier sandwhiches"

Some people are willing to pay $1,000/day to go sailing.
Others are willing to pay for thier own food and go sailing.

I dont begrudge the charter company for charging $1,000/day and i don't begrudge the cruising couple collecting $25/day.


As long as the expectations are clear and there is a plethora of willing parties, I don't understand why people get so heated up about it!?


Taking advantage of starving refugees? Really!?

[Ex-Calif]

Clearly one size does not fit all. For my personal situation...


- I do not plan to deliver a boat internationally but if I did I would pay for a delivery crew - Boatman comes to mind.
- For coastal deliveries I have friends. I would provision the boat, would not pay them. They handle any shore expenses. Depending on distance they would pay their one-way airfare - they're friends on "vacation"


- I would take casual joiners/inexperienced crew. They would be responsible for air fare and one shore expenses. Depending on their experience and likeability I may ask them to chip in a fixed amount for provisioning expenses.


The casual joiner may be a back packer traveler and I may have to teach them a lot to make them useful on the boat. I am advancing their backpacker journey so why should I have to feed them?

[FamilyVan]

Isn't this just a matter of supply and demand? My brother and I had a hair brained scheme a few years back to buy and fix up an old Colvin Gazelle and use it to ferry hippies back and forth between Bocas Del Toro and Limon. We never got the plan off the ground because- well my partner became pregnant.

Our intent was definitely to charge for the trip. Enough so that we didn't need to spend another freezing winter in Canada.

On the other side of the coin, for the long trip down on a schooner with wooden spars, we definitely would have paid room and board and travel to friends to help us get her down there.

I routinely charge other people for me to work as delivery crew, either navigator or skipper, and i charge enough to make it worth my while.

At the same time, I got asked last year to sail as navigator on a tall ship. They wouldn't pay my wages but travel and meals were covered. I like the organisation and I was game for 10 days off shore on a tall ship. So I went for it.
I think everybody's perspective on this thread is correct, from a certain point of view.

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