Financing, insurance and starting a business

[Leighaa13]

Originally Posted by Montanan

Good luck

USVI 6 pack school link:

http://captainschoolusvi.com/courses/oupv-6-pack.html


Certifications Required for Captains-


Operating 6 passenger boats in the USVI

-USCG OUPV Near Coastal License

-CPR & First Aid

-Random Drug Testing Program

-FCC Marine Radio Operator Permit

-TWIC Card (TSA.gov)


Operating 1-12 Passenger Boats in the BVI

-Add: Master Upgrade to 50 or 100 Gross Ton Master Near Coastal

-add: STCW Basic Training

-add: STCW Advanced Fire Fighting

-add: STCW Medical Care Provider

-add: STCW Proficency in Survival Craft (Limited)

-add: STCW II/3 Endorsement on License


Operating Vessels with more than 12 passengers in BVI

Same as above and

-add: STCW Crowd Managment

-add: STCW Crisis Management

-add: Vessel Security Officer

We are already signed up for all of our certification classes. Thank you. I’m looking forward to them and getting certified.

[mvweebles]

Originally Posted by Montanan

Good luck

USVI 6 pack school link:

http://captainschoolusvi.com/courses/oupv-6-pack.html


Certifications Required for Captains-


Operating 6 passenger boats in the USVI

-USCG OUPV Near Coastal License

-CPR & First Aid

-Random Drug Testing Program

-FCC Marine Radio Operator Permit

-TWIC Card (TSA.gov)


Operating 1-12 Passenger Boats in the BVI

-Add: Master Upgrade to 50 or 100 Gross Ton Master Near Coastal

-add: STCW Basic Training

-add: STCW Advanced Fire Fighting

-add: STCW Medical Care Provider

-add: STCW Proficency in Survival Craft (Limited)

-add: STCW II/3 Endorsement on License


Operating Vessels with more than 12 passengers in BVI

Same as above and

-add: STCW Crowd Managment

-add: STCW Crisis Management

-add: Vessel Security Officer

Clarification - the so-called '6-pack license' is actually a license to operate an uninspected vessel, which are limited to 6 passengers. The license is limited to tonnage, not passengers. I held a 100-ton license and drove an 84-passenger USCG inspected dinner-cruise boat in SF Bay for a couple years.

Does the BVI follow a similar convention where the boat is certified for x-number of passengers, and the captain licensed to operate a certain displacement vessel, or do they do it on actual passengers on board? Or something different? What about other jurisdictions in the Caribbean? France? Dutch?

I realize the OP likely has her ducks in a row on this, but just curious how it works in the Caribbean.

Peter

[Montanan]

Originally Posted by mvweebles

Clarification - the so-called '6-pack license' is actually a license to operate an uninspected vessel, which are limited to 6 passengers. The license is limited to tonnage, not passengers. I held a 100-ton license and drove an 84-passenger USCG inspected dinner-cruise boat in SF Bay for a couple years.

Does the BVI follow a similar convention where the boat is certified for x-number of passengers, and the captain licensed to operate a certain displacement vessel, or do they do it on actual passengers on board? Or something different? What about other jurisdictions in the Caribbean? France? Dutch?

I realize the OP likely has her ducks in a row on this, but just curious how it works in the Caribbean.

Peter

Hi Peter, perhaps you Captained for Hornblower Yachts. When I was younger and had yet moved to Montana from Piedmont, California my next door neighbor and friend was Terry McCrae, the owner of Hornblower.

He has expanded his fleet dramatically from whence he first moved to the adjacent home, now having vessels operating in 20 ports and I believe has East Coast operations also.

I see that his charter yacht now has about 2,500 employees and is nearing $500 million in annual revenues. That is a lot of dinners and drinks, and parties and weddings, etc. He is one incredible business owner and knows how to be the best of class host.

I learned motorized boating as a Sea Scout at about 12 years of age, and sailing classes beginning at about 10 years of age first on Lake Merrit in Oakland and then onto S.F. Bay, and would regularly be gifted dinner cruises on his ships whenever we had friends and family visiting us in the Bay Area. He always wanted to have us go aboard and to then give him feedback on how our experiences were, as to personnel, food, drinks, helmsperson skills, comfort of the guests, the handling of issues with the guests, etc. He appreciated gaining candid thoughts, suggestions, guidance of what went well, who on board had good personal skills, good yachtcraft skills, etc. I could pretty much count that I would need to spend two times as much time discussing how our voyage went with him as the voyage took. He craved detail observations. And because we got to be on many different yachts, some of which were huge and others much more intimate, he knew we could provide perspectives that only an experienced guest could provide.

It has been years and years since I have been in touch with Terry. Should put that on my to do list as to getting back in touch on my next trip back to the Bay Area.

[blueblaze]

As a marine insurance agent I can tell you finding insurance coverage for the BVI’s during hurricane season will be very difficult. Currently most carriers are requiring the boat be out of the middle of the Caribbean from 7/1-11/1. Here’s my email if you would like to chat more..
Laura@legacyunderwriters.com

[TomCio]

I use a German insurer Pantaenius (https://www.pantaenius.com/) for Polish flagged boat in the Med. Their rate for commercial use is ca. 25% higher than for recreational one. I simply paid the recreational rate the moment I bought the boat and I am going to inform them when I launch my commercial activity to upgrade it. All done in one day by internet. They do pay.

[Larryo]

I would encourage you... sounds like a great idea and you have the experience.


I did the same with aircraft charters (very similar). Didn't pay for everything, but defrayed a lot of costs and was a lot of fun.



I'd call all the insurance agents I can, and if you get "locked in" to one, get released and get more quotes. That will be a challenge.


As for financing.... I'm not an expert in boat financing, however, there's an argument to keep the house and put a note on the house to finance the boat. And rent the house out. A bit of work, but probably a better financial move.

[TabbyCat]

Originally Posted by Leighaa13

Good evening, I have some questions. My husband and I are planning on selling everything and buying a 50-65 foot used motor yacht. We want to liveaboard and run a chart business off of it in Caribbean (USVI). I’m wondering what people think about the best company to finance through. We are looking at boats no more than $400k and we will have $250k to put down. Also wondering about who to go through for insurance. And any advice will be greatly appreciated. We have been researching this for 10 years and have been saving but with the pandemic and current economic issues in the world if anyone had any updated information on the best way to do this and companies to use. We plan on buying this summer and traveling from the us to the Caribbean ourselves. My husband is retiring and selling his business his marine repair business and has much experience in boats this size and has had a captain’s license in the past. We will be licensed in the next few months. Any advice is greatly appreciated.

Leigh, Congratulations on your decision to take the leap. Lots of folks will question your sanity, but don't listen to them. Life afloat is fantastic and rewarding. Yes it is sometimes very challenging and frustrating, but it sure beats staying at home and wondering "what if?". I've been living aboard over for 15 years now, and would be happy to provide some insight if you send me a PM or e-email. Plus I am a licensed marine insurance agent, and can help you navigate that minefield.

[merrydolphin]

My wife and I extensively charted in the eastern Caribbean. We were based in the SE Caribbean, St Lucia through Grenada. Based out of Grenada. Also based in the Virgin Islands for a while. We did what is called Term crewed charters. I am a hundred Ton Master, A US Sailing instructor, and Scuba dive master/instructor. In all my chartering I don’t think that I was ever asked for my credentials by any officials. Things may have changed.

As has been mentioned, a power vessel will be harder to market. Also, we were able to be successful because we had a niche market: sail AND Scuba diving. We carried full gear and compressor for filling tanks. We could accommodate 6 divers. We marketed that we were NOT a live aboard dive boat doing 4 and 5 dives a day. We advertised 1-2 dives a day and not all days. I also offered instruction.

As far as finance goes. The only place that I had luck was USAA. If either of you veterans you can get financing that NO ONE else will give you. Boat more that 10 yrs old is tough, more than 25 yrs old nearly impossible. But USAA came though with out hesitation (I have excellent credit).
If you have a captains license, some commercial experience, and cruising experience, you should be able to get insurance. ( no matter what, it won’t be cheap). PS, to offer Scuba, you must have professional credentials in order to get insurance for diving. If you don’t have this professional ins. (About 800/yr) youre looking to loose your boat and a lot more. Maybe your freedom.

We found the charter business very rewarding. You have to love people and it s a lot of work, but beats being “in the office”. We found that we only needed to do about 3 months a year to make enough to keep cruising and diving to our hearts content! Yes, there are motor yachts charting. But do you research. Talk to the agencies and brokers and see what they say. It may give you a feel for the reality of the endeavor.
PS. We were able to make it work because in this case, we had a paid for boat. Paying off a $2-300,000 debt makes me shudder. Now if you need a large tax write off it might work.

[captainwd40]

I say go for it.

I think it's a great idea and have thought about it myself.

Buy a motor yacht ..... drive to the carribean and live on it.

Then once you get settled and familiar with area ...... start a business allowing vacationers to spend a few days to a couple of weeks with you and pocket the cash.

You will be retired and financially self-supporting so your guests will be entertained at their expense and you keep the residual proceeds.

You choose the clientele and length of stay.

Do it ..... and I may be one of first guests.

Cheers!

[PaulCrawhorn]

Originally Posted by captainwd40

allowing vacationers to spend a few days to a couple of weeks with you and pocket the cash.



You will be retired and financially self-supporting so your guests will be entertained at their expense and you keep the residual proceeds.

That really sounds like you are suggesting skipping all the legally required paperwork, insurance etc

If so fuggedaboudit incredibly stupid, unless you are judgment proof, no assets in your name, and enjoy living and dying the outlaw way

[captlloyd]

Originally Posted by PaulCrawhorn

That really sounds like you are suggesting skipping all the legally required paperwork, insurance etc

If so fuggedaboudit incredibly stupid, unless you are judgment proof, no assets in your name, and enjoy living and dying the outlaw way

A bit snarky I might say. He didn’t say anything about skipping paperwork, I’m thinking you just pulled that out of thin air, or somewhere else.

[PaulCrawhorn]

I did say "sounds like"

Many people skip the whole thread and just toss out their opinion based only on the OP.

[captainwd40]

Captain crawhorn:

I inferred no such intent.

There are rules and regulations. It is inferred that we all follow them.

Cheers!

[Eric ROGUE]

Your life savings will be tied up in this project.

Too many boats have inadequate anchoring systems to keep them safe when conditions get dicey. Best insurance against loss of your vessel is several good anchoring systems each sufficient to keep the boat safe in hurricane force winds. And practice using them. There is excellent advice on this Forum about anchors and anchoring systems. If you use a mooring, put it in yourself, or otherwise verify that it and the equipment on your boat will keep your boat safe in all events.

You seem to have a dream - charter business - and the only parts of the business you know is boat maintenance and being a captain. Only one of you has those skills.

Does the other person have the skills to run a business, deal with people, advertising, networking, etc.

You are risking your life savings on an adventure, a dream, hope, not a business plan.

I met a wonderful woman, tour guide in the Galapagos. 30s, early 40s couple with kids. Wanted to live aboard and make a business of it. Lost lovely home, and secure incomes when things didn't go as hoped (planned is too strong a word as I think it is in your case as well). They are young. They have time to recover.

Do you have time to recover if this dream of yours becomes a nightmare?

[captlloyd]

Originally Posted by Eric ROGUE

Your life savings will be tied up in this project.

Too many boats have inadequate anchoring systems to keep them safe when conditions get dicey. Best insurance against loss of your vessel is several good anchoring systems each sufficient to keep the boat safe in hurricane force winds. And practice using them. There is excellent advice on this Forum about anchors and anchoring systems. If you use a mooring, put it in yourself, or otherwise verify that it and the equipment on your boat will keep your boat safe in all events.

You seem to have a dream - charter business - and the only parts of the business you know is boat maintenance and being a captain. Only one of you has those skills.

Does the other person have the skills to run a business, deal with people, advertising, networking, etc.

You are risking your life savings on an adventure, a dream, hope, not a business plan.

I met a wonderful woman, tour guide in the Galapagos. 30s, early 40s couple with kids. Wanted to live aboard and make a business of it. Lost lovely home, and secure incomes when things didn't go as hoped (planned is too strong a word as I think it is in your case as well). They are young. They have time to recover.

Do you have time to recover if this dream of yours becomes a nightmare?

I see no basis for hardly any of the assumptions you present.