How Did You Decide?

[Rob19321]

I'm with CarlosProa above,

Get experience is the undertone.

1. Buy a boat and use it, make a log of what you like and don't. Do extended overnighters... a day, then a weekend, then a week.

or

2. Run on down to a few marinas and offer to crew for racers... often there is a demand to be filled and get out on as many boats as you can.
The casual conversation and new "boater friends" that you meet will be worth more than 5 years thinking about it.

[bensolomon]

Bookdocking,

First thought for me when deciding to buy a boat was that I chose my boat based upon the area I was going to sail: Chesapeake Bay to New England, and Chesapeake to Bahamas. So ...I needed a good light air boat, for the majority of the time, but one that could handle an occasional ocean trip. Also, needed a draft 4 to 5 1/2 feet because Chesapeake is shallow.

Second, I love to sail, even in 2 knots of breeze (Chesapeake in August) so I needed a boat that can sail in light air, as well, which meant I needed a lighter boat, weight wise.

Third, because I enjoy the intellectual stimulation of sail control, and I want to be ready for light air as well as heavy air, I wanted a boat with end boom main sheeting, boom vang, Spinnaker halyard, jib cars that I can adjust from the cockpit on the fly to get the best shape from my jib. I also wanted a traditional main instead of in mast furling because that's what I was most familiar with when I bought my boat. Over the years, I have very much enjoyed having a traveler and the main sheet in the cockpit aft of the companionway. When I am at anchor, I can tighten up the main sheet and it becomes an assistant to get up and down the companionway. I just move it to the port of the companion way. It's super helpful!

Fourth variable was decent fresh water and blackwater tankage for anchoring out and long trips. Was never super concerned with diesel capacity 'cause she's a sailing boat!

Fifth variable was sleeping berths since I have a family of 5 with two dogs. (Kids are now all in their mid twenties) Nowadays, it is just the Admiral and I. As a side note, people rarely come on a prolonged boat trip so space for guests isn't nearly as much of a need. We had a spot for everyone, plus a friend each for my kids. Wasn't luxurious, but a ton of fun!

Sixth was engine. I wanted an older yanmar with minimal electronics again because of familiarity, and I had a bad experience with a Volvo Penta in the past.

Seventh was shaft drive not sail drive. Smaller hole in the boat, and I use prop walk for maneuvering under power, and I honestly didn't want bow thrusters because it's another hole in the boat and another system to deal with.

Seventh, simplicity. I want to sail, not be a systems engineer. My boat has three total through hulls, and zero networked systems, no built in air conditioning. I also have a manual pump jabsco head. I use paper charts for nav, and an iPad at the helm station if necessary, and a hand held anemometer.

Eighth, I wanted a functional galley that could also be safely used while underway.

Ninth, was cost and size. I picked a boat that I could afford and pay for, as well as walk away from if my family absolutely hated it. I am the primary sailor in the family and always have been. I also needed a boat that I could confidently single handle. Also, since this was going to be my first boat, I wanted to buy a boat that I wouldn't cry if I banged it, or while attempting to fix something broke more stuff :-).

These were the variables that led me to purchase my current boat, a 1990 Hunter legend 37.5 ten years ago. I grew up sailing a 32 ft Hunter from the Chesapeake Bay up to New England with my uncle who has always been a second dad to me. I took a very long hiatus from sailing as I finished my education, but when we finally went boat shopping I clearly gravitated towards older hunters, and this boat spoke to me.

In terms of your proposed 5-year plan, my personal recommendation would be to buy a boat that is affordable and just get out there. Not to be maudlin: I had always dreamed of owning my own sailboat, and quite honestly, I thought it would be when I retired. But then 10 years ago, my best friend at 42 (we are the same age) had a massive pontine stroke which left him locked in, and completely quadriplegic. I came home from caring for him and talked to my wife and told her that I just got the biggest lesson that tomorrow isn't guaranteed. We decided that evening, that we would start looking for boats with the intent to be sailboat owners when we found the right boat.

I bought our boat 10 years ago not necessarily knowing what I was getting into with boat ownership as well as sailing, in general. Did I goof up on occasion? Absolutely! Do I still goof up? Absolutely!!

The times that my entire family with friends has been on Dawn, sometimes cramped, occasionally in some storms, but together and seeing nature and experiencing life without any invasion from the outside world were the best times we've ever had as a family.

The point is, don't wait. Buy a boat and then educate yourself. In this day and age of online education, you'll be able to gain a tremendous amount of knowledge that is immediately applicable.

Kindest regards in your search and welcome to the mariner community!

Ben

[Happ]

Originally Posted by bookdocking

In the next five years my husband and I will be purchasing our first sailboat to liveaboard and cruise.
When you bought your boat how did you decide among all the available options?
I understand 1) PRICE 2)Intended use 3)level of comfort all to be important deciding factors in making a decision but I still feel flush with far too many options in my future.
What did you do? Did you have a list of must haves/ desired features and nice but not necessary items?
I need to climb into, if you'll pardon the disturbing image, as many sailors brains as possible. If you'd be so kind, tell me your needs and how you met them, what you decided to disregard and so on, resources you utilized, the most helpful advice you received. Thanks in advance for any responses, I really appreciate the input.

First I’ve been sailing for decades in all types of boats and disciplines. For me I started with what I was going to do with the boat. In your case you have already stated live aboard. How many staterooms do you need. If you have family that will come and stay for a few days or weeks. Next is where are you going to be sailing? This is important to know whether you need a shoal draft keel. Then add your experience not only sailing but also any skills for maintenance. Have you made a list of equipment you want onboard? A/C, Heat, Auto Pilots, Solar, Dinghy, Electronics, etc.

As you put this list together you can use it to evaluate boat types and even individual boats. Plug in your budget assuming 75% for purchase and 25% for upgrading, replacing or adding. Try to read as much as you can. Chapman’s for Seamanship and general knowledge. Nigel Caulder has written several books and contributes to several magazines. He’s the how to guy. You may also want to subscribe to Practical Sailor. They do testing on equipment and have E Books on very specific topics. For instance they have a 3 part series on just storing water onboard.

Slowly this will all come together. As you learn you will see your list change. I am in the process of doing the same thing for my next boat. The initial use changed which affected something then other things were changed on the list. It’s a living breathing document. Enjoy your journey. It’s a wonderful trip.

[Sea Wolf]

5 years is a good long time to prepare. We started out knowing absolutely nothing about cruising. Did the coast guard classes first and got some training after that. THEN we volunteered to be crew at our local boat clubs to get experience on different types of boats. THAT was the most beneficial for us as we got to experience how different types of boats handled in a myriad of weather conditions. We chose a Gemini catamaran for our first boat and couldn’t have been happier. Stable, fast and 18’” draft so we could go just about anywhere and duck ourselves in just about anywhere in bad weather.

[garychurch]

First.. Good Luck

1. What do you want to do with a boat? Coastal Cruising? Bahamas? Caribbean? The greater the capability the greater the costs.

2. How much comfort do you want (Usually age dependent)? The greater the comfort the greater the costs.

3. How much work do you and your husband want to do? Boat maintenance
and repair, operating, etc, The bigger and better equipped the greater the work and costs.

4. What can you afford? Best options for most range from 40’ and up for Sailing Catamarans, Power Catamarans and Trawlers. Prices from $200,000 to $2,000,000.

[Nibiruwayne]

We started with a 22’ trailers le Catalina- lake sailed her for 4 years. Wa learned how to sail and did a lot of reading . We had a good idea of what we wanted in terms of comfort-and family and friends accommodation. most important we knew we loved Sailing and we wanted to go to ocean sailing. So we’ve moved up 3 times over 3 decades.

[AcroPilot]

Good post with some very interesting and useful replys. I’ve just bought a Malo 42 (43ft long). This boat fills all my requirements, I’m giving myself 1 year to prepare the boat for cruising, she already has hydraulic reefing, all electric winches a bow thruster and new rigging. I’ve already installed new sails, next new nav systems, radar, davits, dingy + engine etc I sail with my wife and solo and this is the perfect boat for me/us. I plan to leave the Canaries on Jan 2 2022 (my 75th birthday) to cross the Atlantic, possibly solo on this first leg, and beyond. Why have I left it so late? Been enjoying what I’ve been doing and saved a bundle of cash! I have owned a sail boat though, of one sort or another, for the last 50 years, so I had a good idea what my ideal boat would be.
Good luck with your endeavors.

[CHM]

We’ve had our 43ft Beneteau for ten years now. If I had to do it again, I would charter in the Virgin Islands and get experience on different boats. Start with a captain on a monohull then try a catamaran. Get your certifications out of the way and have fun. Then you can make an educated decision on purchase.

[SV__Grace]

Originally Posted by bookdocking

In the next five years my husband and I will be purchasing our first sailboat to liveaboard and cruise.
When you bought your boat how did you decide among all the available options?
I understand 1) PRICE 2)Intended use 3)level of comfort all to be important deciding factors in making a decision but I still feel flush with far too many options in my future.
What did you do? Did you have a list of must haves/ desired features and nice but not necessary items? I need to climb into, if you'll pardon the disturbing image, as many sailors brains as possible. If you'd be so kind, tell me your needs and how you met them, what you decided to disregard and so on, resources you utilized, the most helpful advice you received. Thanks in advance for any responses, I really appreciate the input.

I think one of the most important and hardest factors for decision making is what you don't know.

If you clearly define your intended use of your boat and ask yourself "What do I not know about _____?" you might be able to come up with important gems, and you'll still likely miss some unless you do a lot of research, ask a lot of questions of others doing what you want to do and get actual experience doing whatever it is before taking the leap. All of which is challenging but my best answer to your question.

For example, our intended use was to live and travel on the hook, going into marinas as little as possible. We fell in love with a 47 foot center cockpit ketch, tricked out with cool, expensive stuff and an awesome aft cabin, raised salon with inside helm. Perfect, right?

Being a boat owner (multiple keelboats of increasing size) and sailor for 35 years at that point, I figured I knew everything I needed to know. Turns out I was wrong in at least two ways-

1. I had done some anchoring, all in aft cockpit boats and never had a center cockpit before. Turns out that when you have too much windage forward of the centerline your boat doesn't behave well at anchor. In a center cockpit boat the mast is further forward, the raised salon roof creates windage, we have two furling headsails (I took one down) and we have a hardtop over the cockpit that hosts an enclosure and solar panels and shelters us from the rain and sun, but creates more windage. We compensate by using the mizzen as a riding sail but the one biggest thing that I would do differently is get an aft cockpit boat. We love our boat and choose to live with this problem, but if I knew then what I know now our decision would have been different. We didn't have enough experience anchoring for long periods in higher winds, and no experience in a center cockpit sailboat.

2. When living on the hook your batteries and charging sources are EVERYTHING. During our 2 year, very expensive refit we balked at the cost of lithium batteries and went with high quality AGMs. Bad decision. AGMs do not handle the variable charging rates of solar and wind and must be charged to 100% regularly or will degrade. We ended up running our generator 8 hours to recharge our house bank, 3-4 hours in float with 20 then 8 amps or so going into the batteries to get them to 100%, a waste of fuel and generator hours and hard on the generator and occupants. 2 years into our cruising we bit the bullet and upgraded to lithium and they are fantastic. Expensive lesson. We just didn't know enough about living on the hook to anticipate how bad our decision was.

Lots of other lessons involved the cool features of the boat that initially impressed me but weren't a great fit for our cruising style, including-

- That cool washer/dryer? Ended up yanking it out as too power and water hungry. We'd rather do our laundry by hand and go to shore laundromats.

- We yanked the electric furlers for the two headsails in favor of roller furling.

- We yanked the air conditioners- don't need them in the PNW, our cruising grounds for the next 20 years.

- We added a Dickinson diesel heater as the cool, fancy hydronic heating system takes too much electricity and fuel to be used all the time (we turn it on when the temp goes below freezing). The Dickinson uses a fraction of the fuel and doesn't need electrical power except for a small combustion fan used when needed.

- The exterior cc video cameras? (one is underwater) Never turn them on,

- The forward sonar? Great idea, ended up not using it.

One thing we added for peace of mind is an MFD repeater in our sleeping cabin. Our MFDs are B&G Zeus 12s and we added a Vulcan 9 to the network that allows us to see and do everything the Zeus's can do. Anchor alarms on smart phone apps are fine for a weekend but not when you live on the hook.

[TabbyCat]

Originally Posted by bookdocking

What did you do? Did you have a list of must haves/ desired features and nice but not necessary items?

We made a spreadsheet with features across the top and boat models down the side. Printed it out, and then went to boat shows and took notes in that worksheet by hand. Went home and typed in the info and re-printed for the next viewing. The worksheet expanded a bit as we became more aware of features that we wanted: Bridgedeck clearance (we were buying a cat), speed under sail, ability to sail in light winds. Quiet when motoring. Engine not in living quarters. 6'5" headroom in the hulls and in the bridgedeck (I am short, but my husband is tall). Price. Visibility - the ability for both of us to be able to see the bow and stern from the helm station . The ability to walk safely up to the anchor on a gangplank. A hard top to keep us out of the sun (I am fair skinned). Enough room to easily pass each other in the hulls. The ability to tack upwind without backwinding the jib.... and others. At the end of a year of looking and some demo sails, after having filled in all the boxes filled in, it became painfully obvious that one boat literally ticked all our boxes. Bells and whistles -electronics like sonar AIS, etc can always be added later on, but you can't change "the bones" of the boat, so it is important to get that right.

[Bycrick]

The very first yacht broker, when I was looking for my very first boat told me "A good cruising boat drinks six, feeds four, sleeps two and your wife can single-hand it." Forty years later, he’s still right.

[SofaKingFishy]

Beware armchair advice & some of the pretentious posts on this forum- it’s a mixed bag. Some decent insight, sprinkled with opinionated rubbish.
I did what you’re describing. I currently live aboard & here’s what worked for me:

1. Buy a vessel that has been maintained well- spend the extra $. My budget was $150k, boat cash for $120k, spent $30 on upgrades & have a safe, dependable boat. I’ve dockmates on their 5th year of renovation on the hard. I wish them well, but one never knows when health of financial issues will arrive…I’d rather sail than sand…

2. Buy a larger vessel than you think you’ll need. When I was shopping I was in the 36-38’ range. Settled on a Catalina 42’- HUGE to me at the time. Now, I’m eyeballing 45-48’ as ideal.

3. Move into a decent ‘resort’ style Marina for the first year or so & day sail/weekend to learn your vessel & your seamanship. You’ll also appreciate the comforts of a hot shower, pool, restaurants, etc, all while growing into your new home…plus you’ll meet some great folks.

4. Plan a departure date & keep $20k on hand to address any breakdowns, unexpected maintenance once you’re pushing your boat on a daily basis. The more you use it, the more it breaks. Coastal /Island Hop & so short offshore trips for a while before you go Bluewater. One’s learning curve is a lot steeper they anticipate.

5. Finally- and this is the most important- stick with the plan. The new/fun wears off & you’ll reach a point where you question the decision of living in a small, expensive floating home. It’s not for everyone- nor should it be.

Hope this helps!

[Hamish_ct]

Originally Posted by carlosproa

5 years is a long time. Why not buy a starting boat couple of sizes below what you imagine you need. Go sail as much as you can with overnighters. I think you will start to notice the good the bad and the ugly. The next boat should not have the ugly part.
Even with all the nice laid plans, things can derail your plan. In my case my wife developed severe vértigo, so I sold my CAL39 and purchased a smaller old style catamaran 33 ft. It help a bit but only in coastal environments. So you adapt and get going.

In 5 years of ownership, I will guarantee you that you will have a better vision of what you need and can afford

This is the best advice. You don't know what you don't know. Once you start sailing a smaller vessel and doing weekend trips, meeting other sailors, you will have a much better idea of what you like and what you need.

We bought a C&C 33-2 for cruising locally in LIS and PHRF racing. I built a spreadsheet with what I wanted and ranked every boat in that category. I ranked the boat by specs, J, I P, Y, LWL & PHRF rating, Comfort, # of heads, (1 is enough for us), galley, Nav station, electronics, # of winches, size of winches, cabin and cockpit comfort as well as traveler placement, size of holding tank, Fuel tank, Water tank. Plus, luckily my son is studying naval architecture, and is a rigger, so we were able to rig the boat the way we like it at no cost. Ex. Vang accessible from the cockpit on port and starboard. (Dynema and Antal rings, 24:1 purchase). Next item, once you understand that, is sail inventory, Rigging, and cost of upgrades. We found a lightly used boat, updated all the electronics and running rigging, plus a new main.
We plan to sail it for the next 5 years before we move up to a 45+ footer for more blue water boat for more long-distance cruising.

Get what you think you want now in a smaller size, sail it, Sail it, SAIL IT. then in 5 years trade up.

Good luck in your search, it's fun.

Fair Winds
Hamish

[Riggerman]

I have owned boats for over 40 Years. And have helped people buying boats for the last 20 for free. I am not a broker. I help them see the light. 1st question is always what do you want to do with the boat ? You want to be bay hopping like perhaps in Belize, then you need a lower draft. want to do crossing then a heavier boat is better, but necessarily the draft. 2nd question is the level of comfort you need. That would include equipment. Solar, wind mechanical I.E gas or diesel generator. A/C Fridge, space, storage, etc... 3rd question how handy are you, do you call and electrician to fix a socket, or a plumber to fix a leak, or go to a mechanic to rotate your tires. Before you buy, ask yourself as many question as you can and talk to people that have done what you want to do. And that is definitely not a broker. They sell but not sail.

[TabbyCat]

Originally Posted by Hamish_ct

This is the best advice.
Get what you think you want now in a smaller size, sail it, Sail it, SAIL IT. then in 5 years trade up.

Good luck in your search, it's fun.

Fair Winds
Hamish

Agreed, with one caveat: be aware that insurance companies prefer jumps in size to be limited to 10' or less. So if you start with a 35', then it will be easier to insure your next boat if it is 45' or less, and so on. Not that you should make purchasing decisions based on insurability, but just something you might want to keep in the back of your mind.