How Much to Offer?

[boatpoker]

Originally Posted by amiller

I wish that the soldboat data was open to the public so that buyers and sellers could make better informed decisions about price! Why does this data have to be hidden from the people who could most benefit from it?

It's not hidden, you can buy it like any other service. That data has a cost, should they work for free ?

[Stu Jackson]

Originally Posted by amiller

Thanks for everyone's advice/opinions/wisdom!

SNIP

I wish that the soldboat data was open to the public so that buyers and sellers could make better informed decisions about price! Why does this data have to be hidden from the people who could most benefit from it?

Because it is meaningless. The ONLY "data" that applies to the deal you ares considering for the boat you are considering is the one you make with the seller.

All the other data is just that: somebody else's deals.

[sailpower]

Originally Posted by amiller

I wish that the soldboat data was open to the public so that buyers and sellers could make better informed decisions about price! Why does this data have to be hidden from the people who could most benefit from it?

Because it is a business. The information in the system comes from the businesses who are members.

It costs a brokerage $500+ per month to belong to the MLS system and also have access to the sold data.

[boatpoker]

Originally Posted by Stu Jackson

Because it is meaningless. The ONLY "data" that applies to the deal you ares considering for the boat you are considering is the one you make with the seller.

All the other data is just that: somebody else's deals.

let me show you why I don't think its meaningless. This is one I did a couple of days ago and shows a huge differences between the asking prices and the actual selling prices. Clearly the askings give no indication of what they actually sell for. A prepared buyer gets a better deal.

[amiller]

Originally Posted by boatpoker

It's not hidden, you can buy it like any other service. That data has a cost, should they work for free ?

I'd be willing to pay. It looks like Yachtworld/soldboat is only for brokers, so how does the individual buyer/seller get access?

I can get onto Zillow and see the final sales price for all the homes in my neighborhood just as easily as I can see the for sale listings. Where is the boating equivalent?

[boatpoker]

Originally Posted by amiller

I'd be willing to pay. It looks like Yachtworld/soldboat is only for brokers, so how does the individual buyer/seller get access?

I can get onto Zillow and see the final sales price for all the homes in my neighborhood just as easily as I can see the for sale listings. Where is the boating equivalent?

soldboats.com ..... they'll take your money. I think it costs me about $500 yr.
My wife takes care of the money so I'm not completely sure

[Cheechako]

It all depends on the boat, it's popularity, age, condition etc. But I would say that most often, maybe an average for nice /popular boats, you can expect to settle at a 10% discount probably. Some boats 40% or more.

[sailpower]

Originally Posted by boatpoker

soldboats.com ..... they'll take your money. I think it costs me about $500 yr.
My wife takes care of the money so I'm not completely sure

Will they sell access to anyone?

I thought that you had to be in the marine industry?

[Stu Jackson]

Originally Posted by boatpoker

let me show you why I don't think its meaningless. This is one I did a couple of days ago and shows a huge differences between the asking prices and the actual selling prices. Clearly the askings give no indication of what they actually sell for. A prepared buyer gets a better deal.

Again, ALL that information tells you is what someone else paid. It doesn't tell you what the condition of the boat was, nor the issues the sellers have had or why they sold. Sure, it may be helpful to some...

Here's why:

Originally Posted by Cheechako

It all depends on the boat, it's popularity, age, condition etc. But I would say that most often, maybe an average for nice /popular boats, you can expect to settle at a 10% discount probably. Some boats 40% or more.

In 1997-8, I spent an entire year looking for ONLY a Catalina 34. I became an EXPERT on the boat (thanks to a great owners website) and saw some horrible examples of neglect and abuse. We saw two candidates for purchase in all that time (it was a very popular boat). I KNEW what the prices were and what applied for the years of boats we were seeing. I did my own homework and research. NO blinkin' internet price list would have ever affected the information I had developed, and I could care less what boats in Maryland, Michigan or Florida were selling for - it simply did not affect my market and availability of the boats. One boat we put an offer in on didn't pass survey for a number of reasons, even though it looked good on the surface. The other was a dream boat in pristine condition and we snapped it up. Asking 58, we offered 52 and split the difference. No one got offended. I spent three hours on the boat with the owner, we sat down and did the deal.

[boatpoker]

Originally Posted by Stu Jackson

Again, ALL that information tells you is what someone else paid. It doesn't tell you what the condition of the boat was, nor the issues the sellers have had or why they sold.

What I posted was a summary, there is a lot more information available including brokers notes and original YachtWorld listings.

[Cheechako]

Originally Posted by boatpoker

What I posted was a summary, there is a lot more information available including brokers notes and original YachtWorld listings.

It's a great resource for sure. Like all data, take it with a grain of salt. Like all data, throw out the anomalies... the super low and the super highs. But that kind of resource can be useful to the person looking at a pristine boat, or to someone looking at a bit of a project. The low anomalies are probably projects, act accordingly. The averages for good clean boats tell you how much to plan on settling at.... act accordingly.

The big benefit is the info it gives you for negotiation purposes. Make your offer and now cite examples of why it's a fair offer... this is a lot better tactic for actually closing a deal than just offering a number without explanation.

[boatpoker]

Originally Posted by Stu Jackson

In 1997-8, I spent an entire year looking for ONLY a Catalina 34. I became an EXPERT on the boat (thanks to a great owners website) and saw some horrible examples of neglect and abuse.

I have purchased three boat (37' trawler, 43' motoryacht, 38' fantail).
I spent a week in each case doing research (including researching the owners) weeding out the dregs and in each case bought the first vessel I actually went to see. All because I had done thorough research up front including a very close proximation of value before I left my desk.

There is a plethora of information available on most boats (state registration, USCG documentation, federally licensed, federal registration), lien searches and many others, (and owners) if you know how and where to find it but soldboats is my first go to. It's always great to know what the current owner paid when he bought it.

[ranchero76]

Originally Posted by Stu Jackson

In 1997-8, I spent an entire year looking for ONLY a Catalina 34. I became an EXPERT on the boat (thanks to a great owners website) and saw some horrible examples of neglect and abuse.
...
I KNEW what the prices were and what applied for the years of boats we were seeing. I did my own homework and research.

This IS the way to go.

[Stu Jackson]

Originally Posted by boatpoker

It's always great to know what the current owner paid when he bought it.

Very good point.

In my example, I knew the price, 'cuz he bought it new and I have the price list and the options. The boat was 12 years old, single owner.

Yes, some situations are easier than others.

But just ask yourself what you'd do if you were going after an older Alberg that had been owned by five different skippers. You'd still need to do your homework and the sources suggested are very good for finding out that information. But when all is said and done, once you have those #s, you still have to see the boat, know everything you can about it and know what you're looking at.

Too often these "How much should I offer?" are from new to boating skippers. That makes it a lot harder and makes the question, uhm, meaningless.