How Tough Is the Owner/Charter Business?

[sundowner]

I think you're right about getting by with a OUPV (Operator of an Uninspected Passenger Vessel) if you only have 6 paying passengers or less on board and the vessel is under 100 tons. USCG License Requirements - OUPV six pack - Master Mate 25/50 100 ton

Than would cover him in Florida. Not sure about the Bahamas though. Anyone else know?

[ssullivan]

You have to have your vessel inspected to charter in the Bahamas no matter what. You also have to pay a fee.

[sundowner]

Bruce,
I also applaud you and have been thinking along similiar lines and trying to go through a lot of the same "due diligence" that you are so I can go go in with my eyes wide open as well. Have you checked in to the cost of chartering insurance yet on a cat that size? What sort of prices are you running into? I just live over the mountains from you in Park City, UT, so we should get together and talk some time. Off the subject... a couple of my friends who live in Denver are driving down to meet up at Zions this weekend to do some canyoneering and camping. If you want to go you could hitch a ride with them on Thursday.

[S.I.T.S.]

You have to have your vessel inspected to charter in the Bahamas no matter what. You also have to pay a fee.

Just out of curiosity, what is the down side to having your boat inspected? If I was going to charter I would expect to have and operate a safe boat. Unless of course this inspection was everytime I went into the Bahamas, that might get old.
I could also run something out of the Keys and go out to the Dry Tortugas. Not sure what mooring is like in the Keys but it's another possibility.

I think you're on to something there Bruce. I would suggest that you get a boat and spend some time living and cruising on it. Get your instructor rating and then get a job working on a dive boat for a while. I'm of the opinion that the Captain needs to be the expert. What happens if you have an experienced dive Instructor charter the boat? He or She isn't going to respect 'Capt. Newbie' who just bought a boat and had a dream but isn't an expert on the area, an experienced dive master/instructor, and experienced Captain. You'll know when you have the experience to start running charters because you won't have many questions left to ask about how to do it or what it would be like. Now that I think of it, Blackbeards runs sailing/diving charters in the Bahamas and they are almost always looking for help. That would be a great way to get the experience without having to buy the boat yet.

For sure I would be accomplished prior to chartering. I will have my Instructors card within 6 months. I would probably spend a few months in the off season making some dry runs to the dive sites so I understand the winds, currents, timing etc. I would then start with some of my dive buddies here in Colorado. Offer them a cost only trip and go through the motions.
Thanks for the advice on Blackbeards, but I wouldn't be a guest on that operation let alone work on it. Nothing against Blackbeards but that is the opposite of what I would want to offer. Too many bodies on that boat, just a little too cozy for me, unless it was booked by the lonely wifes club. LOL.

As far as being a "Newbie", well you have to start somewhere. There will always be someone better than me at something. If they happen to get on my boat, I will hopefully learn something from them. I have dived with DMs and instructors that had poor skills and to be honest with you it didn't bother me. A certified diver has to take responsibility for themselves. It is not a divemaster's job to babysit divers. His/Her job is to brief the dive site, lead them if they want and to make sure everyone is back on the boat in a timely manner.

The day trips is a possibility too. Might be tough to hook up with those cruise boats and they probably want a piece of the action. Different crowd too. But $400.00 a day pays some expenses if your not burning a bunch of fuel.

All good stuff gentleman, I thank you.
BTW, 70 degrees today here in Colorado and 80 tomorrow but get this, Thursday and Friday.. MORE FRICKEN SNOW Highs of 40 degrees.. Our summers here are from June
to Sept.
Huh... starting to get the big picture here? LOL

Bruce

[David_Old_Jersey]

Originally Posted by S.I.T.S.

I have dived with DMs and instructors that had poor skills

From my experiances in warm places, albeit mainly sharing a few beers with folk - quite often the DM job is poorly paid, and folk tend to be attracted more for the exotic location / lifestyle - but even that wears thin after a while given the reality of the mundane nature of the job (Tour Guide / Bus driver)......but cheap labour is always attractive to a business, downside is motivation / quality control........as a motivated owner / operator can make an "experiance" a lot better and more consistent.

To be honest S.I.T.S. having followed this thread, If were you I would just fook off somewhere warm and exotic and cheap and chill out on the beach for 6 months or so getting the rat race outta your brain......sod the working

[S.I.T.S.]

To be honest S.I.T.S. having followed this thread, If were you I would just fook off somewhere warm and exotic and cheap and chill out on the beach for 6 months or so getting the rat race outta your brain......sod the working _

_________________

I just got back from 10 days in Roatan Honduras, and I spent a week in the Bahamas in January. Don't get the wrong Idea, I am far from miserable. Life can be a lot simpler that's all.

As far as the DMs and most of them are actually certified instructors, they get paid about $400.00 a week. Their food and room is paid for and they can probably get another 2 to 3 hundred a week in tips but they work their ass off on a boat. If they aren't diving they are helping in the kitchen or making beds or doing laundry. All these crews chip in and help each other out. They all have the common goal of splitting the tips. But again they are doing something they love and they are logging a ton of dives and I suppose they can just bank the money. Probably a good job for someone in their twenties.

[imagine2frolic]

S.I.T.S.

All good warnings, and advice here, but it's your life, and your dream. If you want it to happen, and you work hard enough. Then it will happen! Just make sure you have enough money to live on for a couple of years. BEST WISHES in moving forward with your plans, and it becoming EXTREMELY succesful.........

[gettinthere]

Keep this in mind...a charter boat should have a licensed captain aboard at all times. If you are diving or anything else off the boat, who is in command of the boat? If all the guests come with you everywhere then I think you are OK but if some decide to stay behind while you take others off, then there is liability for not being under the command of a licensed captain.

[S.I.T.S.]

Good to know, thanks.

[sash]

Hi Bruce,

I see it pretty much the same way as ssullivan was describing his expirience. I am glad that my yacht is to small to do overnights because I have guaranteed my privacy on my very own yacht at the end of the day. I did in the past seven day Diving Live-aboard in the Red Sea and I know how draining it can be to attend to your clients for almost 24hs. From my business point of view it will stay a dream to work one week and have the next one off. In the end you've got to take what you can get in order to keep your self and your yacht floating and on your days of you will be anyhow plastered with plenty of maintenance.

About Scuba from a sailing vessel: doing scuba diving your self might be all right, its your yacht so you will take care about it. Commercially I would say you're gonna wreck your yacht in no time. It's a space issue on sailing boats and on a Catamaran its as well a weight issue. Tanks and compressor are not only heavy in weight but as well, not to forget heavy as an investment. Do on that one the numbers to figure it will really bring the extra profit.

Another good point I read before was to get detailed information about the "inspected vessel program" (USCG's inspection program). You may have to spend heaps more money on your just purchased Yacht just to make it complying to the rules. I know it from Australia that there is a big gap from private pleasure vessel to a commercial vessel. It depends a lot on "where" you wanna do your charter business.

I am running a charter business in Asia and I openly admit "it is not easy"! I had perhaps a very similar dream and I had to switch a lot from my first product ideas just to keep on going. And one more thing: don't underestimate the importance of MARKETING. Get someone who can get you going on that end because we as skippers can not do everything and we certainly can not be professionals on everything. Thats what I learned.

Good Luck anyway. I am with you!!!
Greetings from Thailand
Sascha

[Zanshin]

jzk - I only saw the cruise ship / dive business in the BVI and I didn't see an 3rd parties there so I extrapolated that it function the same way in other ports, so I stand corrected.

[GordMay]

A “Foreign Charter Licence” is required to carry out foreign charters in waters of The Bahamas.
Goto:
http://www.bahamas.gov.bs/bahamasweb2/home.nsf/vContentW/51E2427354F5FB2E06256ED3005EBA11/$FILE/PortLegalIssues.PDF

Provisions within the Boat Registration (Yacht) Rules 1991 facilitate foreign yachts
operating charters within the territorial waters of The Bahamas. There are stipulations
that must be satisfied prior to foreign yachts operating charters within the territorial
waters of The Bahamas.
In order to operate under these rules the following is stipulated:
- submit application- applications available at Department and Department’s web site
- vessel inspection by the Port Department- for vessel inspections please call Mr. Cyril
Roker at (242)322-8832 or fax (242)322-5545
- registration of crafts via Port Department- (registration must be valid)
- licence of master (licence must be valid)- must produce certificate of competence
- liability insurance
- proof ownership
- documentation (certificate of registry etc)
Operators are also restricted from soliciting business in The Bahamas. All soliciting must be conducted outside The Bahamas. All application must be approved by the New
Providence Port Authority- please view section on legal parameters of the New
Providence Port Authority.
Once a vessel is issued with a Foreign Charter Certificate, and the master has a local
licence issued by the New Providence Port Authority, the vessel is registered legally
under the laws of The Bahamas relating to foreign charter vessels. Persons operating
charter services are not required to have work permits. Operators must be reminded
however, that absolutely no soliciting of clientèle is permitted in The Bahamas.

Bahamas Schedule of fees for all foreign vessels:
https://forms.bahamas.gov.bs/documen...0of%20Fees.pdf

[witzgall]

It has been said by many: "Buy small, go now".

Our boat cost one tenth of your 200k. Another 20k to outfit nicely, and off you go! Do the math with a 40-50k investment to go cruising and see what happens to your need to make money.

Chris

Originally Posted by S.I.T.S.

Hey I have an idea. How about I go live on a boat and have the ability to do all the things I love. My life isn't "bad" but I do get very tired of the proverbial "rat race". I am just trying to find a way to supplement the monthly expenses while living the boat life.

Bruce

[SelkirkWind]

From the looks of it, you have gotten some good advice here. Other sources are:
Yacht Charters | Discount sailboat charters | Charter yacht ownership | Sailonline.com
and
charterboatowners : Charter Boat Owners Group

These sites are very Charter boat specific and about the best I have found.

Fairwinds, clear heavens!
Chip

[frankdeegan]

Hi Ram, I was looking in the cruisers forums and noticed you charter in the Med, Can you tell me what is required to operate a charter vessel / sailboat. i can't seem to find any information, Is every country operating to the same standard, I'm looking at starting a charter for Irish traditional music players and getting them gig's at various ports of call. should be a nice market their. Your thoughts would appreciated.

Thanks

Frank Deegan