If I charter my boat, and a renter sinks it, what happens?

[Tingum]

I love it when non lawyers rush to post on a legal issue. Come on, if you want the correct answer to a legal question about an issue covered under Admiralty Law you need to ask an Admiralty Lawyer,not an internet forum!

[Jim Cate]

Originally Posted by John Drake

Chartering your boat is a good way to make hundreds of dollars, at a cost of thousands while incurring millions in liability.

Good summation, John. Couldn't agree more...

Jim

[buzzstar]

I once had the experience. Fortunately, asked for and received a provision that allowed "occasional" bare boat charters. Otherwise would have received nothing from insurance carrier. Also, was told (and confirmed by me) that premium on agreed value policy, which this was, is fully earned if there is a total loss, which this was. So no refund of premium, although the loss occurred in the first 60 days of the policy year. Charter party tied up to a buoy he saw off Point Dume in California (near Malibu) Hours later (wee hours of the morning) boat, with him and wife, was on the beach in the fortunately light surf. He got to a local house and called. Upon my arrival the next morning, everything had been removed from the boat (including mast) by persons unknown, and the were two people inside the stripped hull -one sifting sand for stainless fittings and fasteners, and the other attempting to determine if the fin keel could be removed to recover the lead. I was also sued by the charter party for the value of the unexpired charter days. It turned out the line he had used (the one that parted and allowed him to drift ashore) was a line that was already attached to the buoy, not one he'd found aboard. At least that is what he claimed in sworn testimony. He lost and I have not chartered a boat I've owned since.

[meirriba]

Originally Posted by Tingum

I love it when non lawyers rush to post on a legal issue. Come on, if you want the correct answer to a legal question about an issue covered under Admiralty Law you need to ask an Admiralty Lawyer,not an internet forum!

Nothing wrong with that. He just expands his knowledge and some of the sailors/poster here do have legal training or insurance career experience.

[valhalla360]

Originally Posted by Tingum

I love it when non lawyers rush to post on a legal issue. Come on, if you want the correct answer to a legal question about an issue covered under Admiralty Law you need to ask an Admiralty Lawyer,not an internet forum!

Official answers from Admiralty Lawyers can be expensive and still have a decent chance of being wrong or incomplete.

Knowledgeable people who have chartered and seen the issues firsthand, posting on the forum are free and probably almost as reliable.

To the OP: Get everything in writing and assume the worst and you will probably be OK but it likely won't make financial sense to charter occasionally.

[jsc7]

Originally Posted by Tingum

I love it when non lawyers rush to post on a legal issue. Come on, if you want the correct answer to a legal question about an issue covered under Admiralty Law you need to ask an Admiralty Lawyer,not an internet forum!

Yeah, I realize a question like this generates a lot of opinions from people who have no idea what they are talking about.

I think it is still valuable to ask because there is the hope of a few answers from people like Buzzstar who have actually chartered their boat and can relate actual experiences.

I am not really interested in lawyer opinions. If we all listened to lawyers, we would never go boating all, but instead would do nothing but hide in our basements and send lawyers checks for "basement indemnity".

I know people that charter their boat use different methods of protecting themselves against losses, and I just am hoping for some accounts of practical experience with those differenct methods.

[belizesailor]

Originally Posted by Tingum

I love it when non lawyers rush to post on a legal issue. Come on, if you want the correct answer to a legal question about an issue covered under Admiralty Law you need to ask an Admiralty Lawyer,not an internet forum!

Yeah, real world charter industry experience has no relevance.

[atoll]

this just happened yesterday to a friend in antigua, yacht is a total loss,captained by a RYA yachtmaster instructor no less..after being specifically told not to sail in the area on the east coast of antigua

fortunately no loss of life

[belizesailor]

Originally Posted by atoll

this just happened yesterday to a friend in antigua, yacht is a total loss,captained by a RYA yachtmaster instructor no less..after being specifically told not to sail in the area on the east coast of antigua

fortunately no loss of life

Pride cometh before the fall.

[atoll]

Originally Posted by belizesailor

Pride cometh before the fall.

coming into a shallow reef bound windward facing anchorage at night,borders on suicidal!

as another friend commented about the location, indian town creek ,he would not take his skiff in there,even on a good day,what was the guy thinking

[belizesailor]

Originally Posted by atoll

coming into a shallow reef bound windward facing anchorage at night,borders on suicidal!

as another friend commented about the location, indian town creek ,he would not take his skiff in there,even on a good day,what was the guy thinking

Maybe "Im a YM Instructor...I'll sail where I damn well please.".

However, the YM Instructors Ive know have been extremely competent.

[atoll]

Originally Posted by belizesailor

Maybe "Im a YM Instructor...I'll sail where I damn well please.

quote chris doyle who writes one of the more comprehensive cruising guides for the region.......

"Chris Doyle"" Many many years ago I motored in there, realized in a few minutes that water was running out, with no room to turn, dropped the hook and swung on it. raised it and motored out. Decided it was not one for the cruising guide!!"

[james247]

Originally Posted by jsc7

I am looking at getting a 33' pilot house and potentially putting it out to charter (bare boat).

If I charter my boat, and a renter sinks it, what happens?

If the answer to that is "my insurance willl pay me", my concern is (1) the insurance company will not reimburse me for the full value of the boat, and (2) if the renter takes no risk and knows that my insurance will pay for everything, they will be reckless with my boat.

How are these situations handled in real life?

jurisdiction: Massachusetts, United States

Omg if you live in or passing through an area with a large bare boat charter fleet monitor the radio skeds for some fun. You could write a book on the antics. Then you would never consider offering your boat for charter.

[Jim Cate]

Originally Posted by james247

Omg if you live in or passing through an area with a large bare boat charter fleet monitor the radio skeds for some fun. You could write a book on the antics. Then you would never consider offering your boat for charter.

Agreed! We used to spend evenings in teh Whitsunday Is charter area listening to what we called the "hate and discontent" channel. The mishaps that those nice folks got into were amusing (to us) and terrifying (to them) and often expensive (to the insurers).

I would never charter out a boat that I cared about.

Jim

PS To answer the original query "If I charter my boat, and a renter sinks it, what happens?", for some companies the practice would likely be pump her out and change the toilet paper roll!

[belizesailor]

Originally Posted by james247

Omg if you live in or passing through an area with a large bare boat charter fleet monitor the radio skeds for some fun. You could write a book on the antics. Then you would never consider offering your boat for charter.

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

Agreed! We used to spend evenings in teh Whitsunday Is charter area listening to what we called the "hate and discontent" channel. The mishaps that those nice folks got into were amusing (to us) and terrifying (to them) and often expensive (to the insurers).

I would never charter out a boat that I cared about.

Jim

PS To answer the original query "If I charter my boat, and a renter sinks it, what happens?", for some companies the practice would likely be pump her out and change the toilet paper roll!

I used to be based near the Moorings and TMM bases in Placencia, Belize. I would often leave my VHF scanning their working channels while I did boat maintenance...could be quite amusing! 🤣