I'm Walking Away from my Boat

[Dockhead]

We should mention on purely economic side to the story.

The very first sailboat I ever bought turned out to be this case -- it was an extremely valuable lesson.

Some boats need x$ worth of to be usable, but will be worth less than x$ when the work is finished. Sometimes even when x$ covers only materials and parts. Such boats need to be scrapped, and if you realize it halfway throught the project, they still need to be scrapped.

It's very important to figure that out before starting a project, but better to understand it later than never. I'm not saying that's Virgina Boy's case. But no matter how much you love working on boats, it's stupid to spend months and years to not create value, but destroy it. Better to buy one in usable condition already.

One other comment: keeping cruising sailboats in usable condition is a hell of a job, no matter how good the boat is to start with, even when they're new! And if the boat is a fixer-upper, then it's a hell of a hell of a job. It's important to be ready for that, including being ready financially.

I love my boat to death, and I bought her specifically because she was in wonderful condition, owned by a loving, skillful sailor who spared no expense on her. She was only nine years old. I spent a lot of money specifically to start out ahead on The List, which every cruising sailboat has.

Well, The List on my boat has never been less than two pages long, although I spend as much time working on her as sailing her. It's just never-ending. Stuff breaks, fails, wears out, needs to be refinished, as fast or faster than you can deal with it. That's just the nature of the beast. I'm having the boat out of the water for a minor refit this winter to try to knock The List back to one page, at least. I will probably spend more than $100k, although I will do much of the work myself and I'm saving money whereever I can.

It's not sport for the lazy, the poor, or the easily discouraged, I will say that.

Again I am addressing the thread drifted topic, and not implying that any of this applies to Virginia Boy! We wish him well! If I were in the area, I would drop by for a weekend in my work clothes with my tool bag and give him a hand.

[Celestialsailor]

It sounds like Virginiaboys situation is more of frustration than a bad boat. He probably has a run of poor quality outside labor and I would guess an over run of time estimation for the project. He's doing the right thing...walking away for now, enjoy the coming holidays with his family. Chances are he'll have some down time from work where he can contemplate things. I know from personal experience that time is a great healer. Stepping back takes the microscope off the problems and they no longer appear so big.

[Bash]

Originally Posted by Celestialsailor

It sounds like Virginiaboys situation is more of frustration than a bad boat. He probably has a run of poor quality outside labor and I would guess an over run of time estimation for the project. He's doing the right thing...walking away for now, enjoy the coming holidays with his family. Chances are he'll have some down time from work where he can contemplate things. I know from personal experience that time is a great healer. Stepping back takes the microscope off the problems and they no longer appear so big.

I agree. Whether or not the boat can be fixed, the attitude toward it can.

I tend to think that the only people who should work on project boats are those who enjoy working on boats. If the project doesn't energize the worker, it becomes drudgery, a source of frustration.

There are cheaper ways to frustrate oneself via one's hobby. Taking up golf comes to mind.

[oldragbaggers]

Unless he is dealing with some major structural issue that cannot be overcome, I hope the needed rest and time away from the project gives him the renewed energy and perspective to continue. The Westsail 28 is a darn fine boat and he will probably be glad he persevered in the end.

[rtbates]

bummer...Best of luck going forward..

[denverd0n]

Originally Posted by Rakuflames

Don't EVER fall in love with a boat until after it's been surveyed. Just don't. There are so many boats out there.

I'd go a step further and say, until after the deal is done and it belongs to you.

Falling in love with any inanimate object before you own it completely is just never a good idea. We see so many postings on here from people who got in over their heads because they fell in love with a boat and just HAD TO buy it, even though in their hearts they knew it was... you name it: too big, too small, too expensive, the wrong kind, needed too much work, whatever.

As Rakuflames said, just don't!

[barnakiel]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

(...) One other comment: keeping cruising sailboats in usable condition is a hell of a job, no matter how good the boat is to start with, even when they're new!(...)

Comment valid for big boats.

Keeping a small one in usable condition is pretty easy and not at all too time consuming.

b.

[Rakuflames]

Originally Posted by barnakiel

Well,

If you had money to have it fixed by others, then there is no frustration and no issue.

If you did not, then you chose the wrong boat.

Right/wrong?

There are those who buy boats to fix them and derive pleasure from fixing boats. And there are those who get pleasure from sailing boats and they will stay away from fixer uppers.

BTW What was the whole lot that you could not do? What is the possible whole lot in a 25' that an able man cannot handle themselves?

b.

What "able man?" I'm a 66 year old woman with basically no experience with tools. Moving the running rigging, going up the mast to replace the halyards, replacing standing rigging, all sorts of things. It was find a way to afford it or not have a sailboat, and I am not ready to go there. As I said, I've worked out ways to barter a lot of things. On this boat, a dirty fuel tank was a big problem for me but not for the friend who actually took care of it.

I had cancer six years ago. It was a great big wake up call. If there's something I really, really want to do, not wise to wait. What I really, really wanted to do was live on my sailboat. But there's been plenty of frustration. The good has outweighed the bad, and I know that something could happen to me tomorrow that would not only keep me from sailing but force me off the boat, not that I ever wanted a "floating condo by a dock."

[Rakuflames]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

We should mention on purely economic side to the story.

The very first sailboat I ever bought turned out to be this case -- it was an extremely valuable lesson.

Some boats need x$ worth of to be usable, but will be worth less than x$ when the work is finished. Sometimes even when x$ covers only materials and parts. Such boats need to be scrapped, and if you realize it halfway throught the project, they still need to be scrapped.

It's very important to figure that out before starting a project, but better to understand it later than never. I'm not saying that's Virgina Boy's case. But no matter how much you love working on boats, it's stupid to spend months and years to not create value, but destroy it. Better to buy one in usable condition already.

One other comment: keeping cruising sailboats in usable condition is a hell of a job, no matter how good the boat is to start with, even when they're new! And if the boat is a fixer-upper, then it's a hell of a hell of a job. It's important to be ready for that, including being ready financially.

I love my boat to death, and I bought her specifically because she was in wonderful condition, owned by a loving, skillful sailor who spared no expense on her. She was only nine years old. I spent a lot of money specifically to start out ahead on The List, which every cruising sailboat has.

Well, The List on my boat has never been less than two pages long, although I spend as much time working on her as sailing her. It's just never-ending. Stuff breaks, fails, wears out, needs to be refinished, as fast or faster than you can deal with it. That's just the nature of the beast. I'm having the boat out of the water for a minor refit this winter to try to knock The List back to one page, at least. I will probably spend more than $100k, although I will do much of the work myself and I'm saving money whereever I can.

It's not sport for the lazy, the poor, or the easily discouraged, I will say that.

Again I am addressing the thread drifted topic, and not implying that any of this applies to Virginia Boy! We wish him well! If I were in the area, I would drop by for a weekend in my work clothes with my tool bag and give him a hand.

I would too. Can't do a lot, but I can sand (well) and varnish (well), clean, clean lines, coil lines. I've had so much help from wonderful people I want to pitch in when I can.

I needed to buy a sound boat and had it surveyed -- and the surveyor blew it off. You do what you can, and then you decide how to deal with it. If I died tomorrow I would be glad I did this, but I'm much better at sailing the boat than maintaining, although I've gotten much better at spotting the scam artists who are trying to blow smoke up my skirt and who are just winging it.

[Rakuflames]

Originally Posted by barnakiel

Comment valid for big boats.

Keeping a small one in usable condition is pretty easy and not at all too time consuming.

b.

The 31' I have now is a lot more work than the 25' was, but I wanted to live on the boat. My 25' was one step up from a cardboard box. You couldn't stand up in the cabin; no water tank (that might have been a plus this summer!); porta potty; no shore power; I could go on and on. It was no boat to live on.

[Mr B]

I hear what your saying and your right about it,

My boat got washed up on the beach in a bad storm, It got big holes in the hulls, It sank on the beach,

The salvage crew floated it off and brought it to Port Stephens on floating bags,
It was sitting on the hard at the Marina, It was full of sand and extensively damaged under neath, everything under 3 feet from the bottom of the hulls was Kaput Totally,

any thing above the 3 foot mark was still perfect, I had no structural damage what so ever, It was still fully rigged for sailing on the hard,

Estimates for the repair came in at around $128,000-00 AUD, Minimum, The insurance company wrote it off, Totally, And Paid me out in full,

I asked around down here and got estimates, For repairs and trucking 700 miles, and all new equiptment.

I offered the insurance company $15000-00 AUD to buy back the wreck, They snapped it up and sold it back to me, They had previous offers of under $10,000-00 which they knocked back,

The insurance company paid for the salvage and hard stand and cleaning of the boat fully up till the time I picked up the boat for transport,

Trident Insurance Company in Perth were a terrific company to deal with, They kept in touch with me while all this was going on, I was very impressed with their service,

List of costs for my boat to go back in the water and be sailing again, Better than the original, Beefed up to meet Australian regs and survey,

Boat, $15000-00
Derig it for transport, $2000-00
Truck to Melbourne, $9200-00 700 miles, with wide load permits and escort,
Repairs to Hulls, $20,000-00
New Electrics, $10,000-00 includes invertor, batterys, pumps, MMPT, charge controller, battery monitor, Anchors, ETC ETC ETC,
Hard stand $770-00 per quarter,

For under $70,000-00 I will have a brand new boat with every thing new in it, Including standing the mast and rerigging the sails,

Its not the way I wanted it to happen, But I ended up with a very cheap boat, which I will be sailing next year to the Kimberlys, 6000 miles away from here,

My advice to you, Is ask around from others who have the same boat as yours and get their advice on it from them,

Ebay.com and search world wide for your parts, Go to the actual manufacturers in China and around the world., they do have excellent equiptment which is exceptionally cheap, Rather than buy from your own country, which came from China any way, If you look at the back on it, It has made in China on it, no matter which country says they made it,

Cheers,
Brian,

[futch]

Well-I decided to buy a boat ready to sail.I justified it by convincing myself I could work overtime and contract weekend work to pay for it.Great plan-bad execution.I not only spent weekends sailing,I even took off work when I could to enjoy the boat.Well to make a short story long,it took a few years to pay for it-Would I do it different if I could?Heck NO.That first season,my wife and I will always remember.We spent any and all spare time on it together.We are much more responsible with our time now.Good luck on your boat,I hope you guys will finally have an opportunity to enjoy it

[TEE]

I feel your pain. Two months ago I sold my boat. After owning sail boats for more than 20 years, I decided I needed a breather. I don't know if I will ever return to boat ownership. Its a long sorry story, but I live in Charleston, SC. The tax accessor here thinks anybody with a boat is rich, and should be punitively taxed. They wanted to charge me thousands a year just in taxes.

The boat yard where I had been doing repairs for twenty years decided that if I wanted a haul out for a storm, I needed to pay $1500 for a promise, which the contract said they weren't obligated to keep. The marina kept going up in price every year and was approaching $14 a foot. The insurance company wanted thousands to insure the boat. Then, the marina started insisting people sign contracts that obligated the boat owners to indemnify the marina for its OWN negligence. Then my insurance company told me that if I contractually agreed to assume that should be the marina's risk, they would not insure me. The birds crapped on my boat constantly, and the westerbeke engine constantly was breaking, this or that, which kept me in the engine room many long, hot and miserable hours. Name your part, starter, solenoid, raw water pump, belts, heat exchanger, wiring harness, hoses, alternator . . . etc., they all broke, some more than once.

I was used to keeping a wary eye on every squall, storm or hurricane that came down the coast. Then another wary eye for water cops who evidently have too much time, and not enough sense to just leave me alone. I decided to pull out of Charleston because of it, and sailed down to Tortola in 2009. There the taxes were next to nothing, but I couldn't bring it back to Charleston because of the tax assessor. Then the insurance sky rocketed, and for six months a year it sat in a hurricane cradle, where I watch with a weary eye every hurricane that rolled through the tropics. When the boat wasn't being used, it was getting cooked in the hot Carribean sun, and the bugs moved in. Then in the season, the Westbeke was constrantly breaking, causing me to chase expensive parts and spend countless hours in the engine room. I finally got to the point one day after taking my dinghy to the dock and watching my dinghy sink that I had enough. It just stopped being fun anymore.

Its no wonder the boating industry is a dying entity. Between the cops, the silly regulations and red tape, the customs people which can be nice or awful, the issues with boat maintenance, the insurance expense, the marinas and boat yard expenses, the normal risks of the sea, and every other issue, I can see why a lot of people just have given up. Nobody can really afford a $30,0000 boat anymore if the marinas want $7500 to park it, the insurance company wants $2,000 to insure it, and you have to spend another $2,000 a year to just keep it running.

I am starting to get used to it, but it was really weird the first month going to my post office box and not finding it stuffed full of bills for dockage, insurance, maintenance, etc. I am starting to get used to it now, and think I just need to sit on the sidelines and decide if it is really worth it. The three years I had the boat in the Carribean, I sailed over 12,000 miles, so maybe I got to the point I just had too much of a good thing, or maybe I wondered if it was really that good.

[Tony B]

It is very difficult to just walk away and admit defeat. You are not alone, so don't let your ego get in the way. It took me longer to learn than most others. I did it twice. I finally came to the realization that 1). it would be far cheaper to buy a boat that is in running and sailing condition from the day I own it and 2). I bought the boat to go 'sailing' and not to go 'fixing'. There is a point of reasonability and realization that it is no longer worth putting good money after bad. When you realize that you made a mistake, it's time to change course. Walk away and don't look back.
Start with another boat in the near future and you will be much happier.


When people get on here asking about buying a fixer-upper, I am the first to say NO!!! Buy one that only needs 'TLC'. That way you can immediately enjoy the boat and you wont mind making improvements. Yours is not the only horror story on here. The rare 'success' stories I read about on here usually mention that they have way more money into the boat than what it is worth and that they took many more years to complete than they expected.
I have said it many times when someone wants to buy a 'fixer upper' - better decide whether you want your hobby to be sailing or fixing.
Anyway, it has come time for you to cut your losses and move on. Save a few bucks and get a boat in halfway decent shape and go sailing.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by barnakiel

Comment valid for big boats.

Keeping a small one in usable condition is pretty easy and not at all too time consuming.

b.

Of course the bigger and more complicated it is, the more expensive and laborious it is to keep up. But any ocean-going cruising boat, no matter how small and simple, is going to be a big responsibility. My failed project boat was only 16' or so - I was a teenager - it was too much for me - gave up - great lesson.