Insurance for International Cruising

[sailingunity]

Originally Posted by Paul L

Even while cruising the seven seas, you do not insurance for all seven��. You generally insure for a year at a time. For most cruisers this means an area to cruise during the season and an area to be out of the hurricane/cyclone/Typhon season. The more remote the area with higher risk navigation and much higher salvage and repair cost, the higher the premium. While you may not have the experience to get circumnav insurance now, you can build it one season and area at a time. Also, as you get experienced insurance restrictions are easier to get reduced.
As a ball park for costs for trans-ocean insurance figure on 1.5 to 2.5% of the boats value. The percentage tends to be higher on lower valued boats. Liability only is sometimes just as hard to acquire. If an insurer loses a boat insured for $100k they are out a 100k. If they insure for a million dollars liability then they can be out 10 times as much as the boat value.

Paul is right on here. We bought our 47' foot boat with no prior boat ownership experience. I had plenty of experience on my dad's boats ranging from 26 to 40 feet, but most insurance companies said they wanted ownership experience. They also want cruising experience, courses help some too. I was able to get insurance through BoatUS (Geico), $1900/year for "Actual value" whatever that means. Agreed value was much more expensive.

We've owned the boat for a year now, and cruised from Maryland to the Bahamas and Florida. I tried to shop for insurance this year and most of them declined to quote because of "too big" or "too old", our boat is 1974.

It seems excessively expensive to me, considering the odds of filing a claim, but going without it seems unwise.

[rosatte]

never sail.d before and wants to sail the seven seas...marina.s are full of cruising boats 4 sale from people with the exact same intention with no experience as so as you run into 30kts of winds and 15seas wife says shes done and boats park.d and up 4 sale...

[balutsky]

Originally Posted by demacsea

I use Pantaenius who covered me for a two-handed Atlantic crossing and has continued to serve me very well for cruising around the Caribbean - including being severely beaten-up by a cat 5 hurricane.

I suggest you take a look at Is Yacht Insurance Really Necessary?

Thanks for the the input and the link. That link is a good reading.

[balutsky]

Originally Posted by rosatte

never sail.d before and wants to sail the seven seas...marina.s are full of cruising boats 4 sale from people with the exact same intention with no experience as so as you run into 30kts of winds and 15seas wife says shes done and boats park.d and up 4 sale...

I probably logged more miles at sea in my 20 yrs I spend in the Navy than the average cruiser folks. I know, I know it is different than the mileage accumulated on a sailboat. Just stating the fact. But hey, why so negative? If I listen to all the negative opinion in my life I will not be able to accomplished what I accomplished in life. Cheers!

[balutsky]

Originally Posted by sailingunity

Paul is right on here. We bought our 47' foot boat with no prior boat ownership experience. I had plenty of experience on my dad's boats ranging from 26 to 40 feet, but most insurance companies said they wanted ownership experience. They also want cruising experience, courses help some too. I was able to get insurance through BoatUS (Geico), $1900/year for "Actual value" whatever that means. Agreed value was much more expensive.

We've owned the boat for a year now, and cruised from Maryland to the Bahamas and Florida. I tried to shop for insurance this year and most of them declined to quote because of "too big" or "too old", our boat is 1974.

It seems excessively expensive to me, considering the odds of filing a claim, but going without it seems unwise.

I also tried to get a quote just to have a general idea on how much it will cost to insure. Both insurance company that I called won't insure outside of the US. I have decided to at least get a 3rd party insurance once I acquire my boat in the future. Thanks for your input.

[Bulawayo]

Originally Posted by Cherod

Pantanious is the big one here

Pantaenius

Beware that not all their offices are equal. I insured through their Monaco office and experienced a nightmare with a claim when a boatyard in Turkey first moved our cat whilst we were aware and dropped her onto concrete and then the same yard managed to drop a mast onto our coachroof with a spreader destroying a window just the rains started. Pantaenius quickly established their preference to avoid paying the claim - even telling us to make a claim against the Turkish marina operator (yeah, right, good luck with that one). Eventually, they did meet some of the repair costs with reluctance. These are all franchised offices and they dont all play by the mother offices rules. We went to their head office and got all sorts of excuses. Against that, I have heard some of their franchises have given excellent services. Our Monaco experience was not good though.

[balutsky]

Originally Posted by Bulawayo

Pantaenius

Beware that not all their offices are equal. I insured through their Monaco office and experienced a nightmare with a claim when a boatyard in Turkey first moved our cat whilst we were aware and dropped her onto concrete and then the same yard managed to drop a mast onto our coachroof with a spreader destroying a window just the rains started. Pantaenius quickly established their preference to avoid paying the claim - even telling us to nkmake a claim against the Turkish marina operator (yeah, right, good luck with that one). Eventually, they did meet some of the repair costs with reluctance. These are all franchised offices and they dont all play by the mother offices rules. We went to their head office and got all sorts of excuses. Against that, I have heard some of their franchises have given excellent services. Our Monaco experience was not good though.

Thanks for this informative info.

[GrahamO]

I'm sorry Balutsky but Rosetta is not being negative. She is being realistic and trying to help you (as am I). I did not realize you planned to take your wife on this 'adventure '. You are perhaps over-reaching a bit here and putting yourself AND your wife at risk. You definitely risk becoming a solo sailor very quickly. I've seen a number of sailing couples part ways when the wife/crew loses confidence in the husband/skipper and gets scared (it will get scary...). They tend not to say much as they don't want to embarrass their husband. They just quietly get to breaking point, pack up and go home.

The sailing in the Leewards and Windwards can be decidedly 'robust'. Anchorages are open and sometimes challenging. Last season, sailing between Puerto Rico and Grenada, we saw two sailboats get wrecked and heard of several others. Even the Bahamas can bite.

We have been very unimpressed with ASA training. We eventually flew to the U.K. to take some RYA courses. They will actually fail you if you are not up to scratch unlike the ''you paid your money- here is your certificate' we saw here. I watched one couple proudly walk away with their cert who should not be allowed on a floating dock.....

I don't want to be negative so here are a couple of less risky options:

1. Get a (preferably smaller) boat in the US and sail the US coast for a couple of years, doing some training then venturing over to the Bahamas when you know you BOTH enjoy it and you feel ready. Then come back to Florida and get and outfit the boat you really want and head East or, perhaps look for boats in the Caribbean as per your current plan as heading East from the Bahamas is tough sailing and many, many cruisers do not get past Georgetown aka 'Chicken Harbor'.

2. If you are determined to start your sailing in the Caribbean, go to the USVI/BVI, do some RYA training in BVI (Sopers Hole in the West End, Tortola). Get a boat there and stick to sailing around those relatively benign islands until you feel confident enough to head East, a non-trivial move. Alternatively head west from there to the Bahamas and get lots of FABULOUS sailing plus great anchoring practice. When you are ready work back upwind to the BVI and then on to the Leewards.

If you take baby steps this experience will be a lot more enjoyable.

BTW. I worked at sea for twelve years and, apart from the survival training, it was not worth a single day on a sailboat.

Good luck and have fun!

Graham

Originally Posted by balutsky

I probably logged more miles at sea in my 20 yrs I spend in the Navy than the average cruiser folks. I know, I know it is different than the mileage accumulated on a sailboat. Just stating the fact. But hey, why so negative? If I listen to all the negative opinion in my life I will not be able to accomplished what I accomplished in life. Cheers!

[balutsky]

Originally Posted by GrahamO

I'm sorry Balutsky but Rosetta is not being negative. She is being realistic and trying to help you (as am I). I did not realize you planned to take your wife on this 'adventure '. You are perhaps over-reaching a bit here and putting yourself AND your wife at risk. You definitely risk becoming a solo sailor very quickly. I've seen a number of sailing couples part ways when the wife/crew loses confidence in the husband/skipper and gets scared (it will get scary...). They tend not to say much as they don't want to embarrass their husband. They just quietly get to breaking point, pack up and go home.

The sailing in the Leewards and Windwards can be decidedly 'robust'. Anchorages are open and sometimes challenging. Last season, sailing between Puerto Rico and Grenada, we saw two sailboats get wrecked and heard of several others. Even the Bahamas can bite.

We have been very unimpressed with ASA training. We eventually flew to the U.K. to take some RYA courses. They will actually fail you if you are not up to scratch unlike the ''you paid your money- here is your certificate' we saw here. I watched one couple proudly walk away with their cert who should not be allowed on a floating dock.....

I don't want to be negative so here are a couple of less risky options:

1. Get a (preferably smaller) boat in the US and sail the US coast for a couple of years, doing some training then venturing over to the Bahamas when you know you BOTH enjoy it and you feel ready. Then come back to Florida and get and outfit the boat you really want and head East or, perhaps look for boats in the Caribbean as per your current plan as heading East from the Bahamas is tough sailing and many, many cruisers do not get past Georgetown aka 'Chicken Harbor'.

2. If you are determined to start your sailing in the Caribbean, go to the USVI/BVI, do some RYA training in BVI (Sopers Hole in the West End, Tortola). Get a boat there and stick to sailing around those relatively benign islands until you feel confident enough to head East, a non-trivial move. Alternatively head west from there to the Bahamas and get lots of FABULOUS sailing plus great anchoring practice. When you are ready work back upwind to the BVI and then on to the Leewards.

If you take baby steps this experience will be a lot more enjoyable.

BTW. I worked at sea for twelve years and, apart from the survival training, it was not worth a single day on a sailboat.

Good luck and have fun!

Graham

Thanks for the insight GrahamO. Totally agree on everything that you said especially the paragraph that my years at sea does not equal a single day on a sailboat.

[james247]

Originally Posted by GrahamO

I'm sorry Balutsky but Rosetta is not being negative. She is being realistic and trying to help you (as am I). I did not realize you planned to take your wife on this 'adventure '. You are perhaps over-reaching a bit here and putting yourself AND your wife at risk. You definitely risk becoming a solo sailor very quickly. I've seen a number of sailing couples part ways when the wife/crew loses confidence in the husband/skipper and gets scared (it will get scary...). They tend not to say much as they don't want to embarrass their husband. They just quietly get to breaking point, pack up and go home.



The sailing in the Leewards and Windwards can be decidedly 'robust'. Anchorages are open and sometimes challenging. Last season, sailing between Puerto Rico and Grenada, we saw two sailboats get wrecked and heard of several others. Even the Bahamas can bite.



We have been very unimpressed with ASA training. We eventually flew to the U.K. to take some RYA courses. They will actually fail you if you are not up to scratch unlike the ''you paid your money- here is your certificate' we saw here. I watched one couple proudly walk away with their cert who should not be allowed on a floating dock.....



I don't want to be negative so here are a couple of less risky options:



1. Get a (preferably smaller) boat in the US and sail the US coast for a couple of years, doing some training then venturing over to the Bahamas when you know you BOTH enjoy it and you feel ready. Then come back to Florida and get and outfit the boat you really want and head East or, perhaps look for boats in the Caribbean as per your current plan as heading East from the Bahamas is tough sailing and many, many cruisers do not get past Georgetown aka 'Chicken Harbor'.



2. If you are determined to start your sailing in the Caribbean, go to the USVI/BVI, do some RYA training in BVI (Sopers Hole in the West End, Tortola). Get a boat there and stick to sailing around those relatively benign islands until you feel confident enough to head East, a non-trivial move. Alternatively head west from there to the Bahamas and get lots of FABULOUS sailing plus great anchoring practice. When you are ready work back upwind to the BVI and then on to the Leewards.



If you take baby steps this experience will be a lot more enjoyable.



BTW. I worked at sea for twelve years and, apart from the survival training, it was not worth a single day on a sailboat.



Good luck and have fun!



Graham

Get a smaller boat and I'll guarantee she won't like it.

[Polux]

You don't insure a boat for the seven seas. That would cost a fortune.

Not all seas have the same insurance cost. What you pay has to do with the risk and that has to do with average meteorological conditions on that stretch of Ocean.

Normally insurances in what regards to cross an ocean have clear limits on the latitude where the cover is valid, also in what regards crew. Sometimes the season you are going to make it.

So, go step by step. First you need to know how to sail and a coastal insurance and even that one will be limited if you don't want to pay a lot.

Then when it is time you will take further steps. You are not going to insure the boat for an Ocean crossing if you are not going to do it on that year, much less insure it for the seven seas

[Caroline Joan]

Some counties will NOT let you enter without 3rd party insurance! You will normally be asked for a copy of your insurance, along with passport etc.

[hpeer]

Was just rejected by Pantaenious, they said their minimum boat value for the Carribean was $300,000.

[Cool Hand Luke]

I got denied coverage by BoatUS (Geico) because they checked my New Jersey driver's license and saw a few too many tickets. Mind you... I've been chartering since 2013 in BVI's, St. Martin, St. Lucia, Belize, and Thailand. Bought a 40-foot in BVIs and sailed her solo to Florida and then Florida to New Jersey. I have ZERO marine claims since I started sailing. I have ASA 101-105 and a USCG Captain's License. Yet, they said that my DL has too many tickets. It baffles me. I have a great coastal policy from a NJ company now and I love it. $1800 per year for coastal cruising.

[chuckr]

I guess you can put us in the boat with GrahamO and Rosetta -
Our sailing experience when we started was ASA101-105 in 2001-2002 and a couple of charters - In 2003 we bought a brand new Jeanneau DS40 and getting insurance was a bit of an issue as no one wanted to insure the boat and all we really wanted to do was sail Biscayne Bay as we lived in Miami - we finally got it from Bill Hodgens of Yachtinsure. He was great as he worked with us each year on our plans. We eventually switched over to IMIS. We work with them each year when the insurance comes due on our plans and they come up with a policy to meet our needs. When we sailed across the Atlantic they insured us for a 2 handed crossing - no issues. When we sailed the Black Sea they worked with us on extra cost and limited coverage in some areas but did not put it into force until we sailed the area that was questionable. This next summer we plan to sail eventually to Israel and then maybe into the Red Sea. They gave us a quote on Israel and we will discuss the Red Sea when the time comes.


Now for a few other comments on those boats for sale when the owners quit for one reason or the other after almost no time out. We personally know of 2 couples who quit and sold their boats for a song. The first was a couple like you who were going to sail the 7 seas and we met them Maine and wanted us to go with them. We declined as we felt we were just not prepared or wanted to do that. We sailed the Bahamas that year and then went in for more upgrades and headed to the Western Carib and got to the Bay Islands and guess who was there - the couple. In over 18months they had gotten that far and stopped. she was a net controller on an SSB net and we talked a bit and never got to meet up as they were headed back to the USA to sell the boat and get an RV. Not sure what happened but cruising was not for them. The second couple bought a really nice Cat that had just completed a circum nav and were going to sail the Carib last summer. Fortunately they got some sense and decided to stay on the east coast but only got from the West Coast of Fla to South Carolina and back - Not sure what happened but they had unexpected boat issues even after a complete and comprehensive survey - but they just never adapted to the boat life - they were friends of friends who asked if we would talk with them and give them tips and we tried - every time we asked questions about this or that they said well we will get to that and just never did and we did not push - they just did not make the transition or the work necessary in the front end that is so non sailing or cruising but learning the boat and the systems - we got an unexpected message from them that the boat was sold and they moved on to living in the Fla condo -
When we started our goal was to make the Bahamas and back to Miami without sinking the boat or killing ourselves or each other. That was 10+ years ago and thousands of miles, 40+ countries and who knows how many ports of call ago - but the goal back then was simple - one small step at a time.
OH and that does not change - last year the goal was Turkey to Northern Greece down the Crete (we had already done over 25 greek isl and chose not to visit them again) and across to Marmaris Turkey and down the Turkish Coast over to Cyprus and then on to Israel. Well things got in the way like way to much wind and we sat out a total of a few weeks to wait out weather, then in Eastern Crete we hit something in the water and broke a blade off our prop so more delays then crossing from Rhodes to Marmaris a thru hull failed so another haul out - we could still make it to Israel before the end of Oct but we had had it and we stopped for the winter. Cruising is one step at a time and a constant adjustment based on your partner, the timing, what you want to achieve in see things ect
good luck and all we can say is take is slow