Is sailing without boat insurance becoming a "standard"?

[LeeSailor]

If an insured boat was damaged by an uninsured boat, would the damaged boat's insurance pay to repair it? Is there something like unisured motorist for boats?

[iiii]

on our policy is included, but only up to 25,000.

[LeeSailor]

Can you pay for additional coverage?

[LeeSailor]

Here’s a very unpopular thought: Rather than buy a more expensive boat, I choose to sail a boat that I can afford to lose. If my boat is a total loss, I’ll be unhappy, but not financially devastated. If she’s lost due to someone else’s negligence, I would try to get compensated. But if they have no money and no insurance – well that’s just one of life’s risks. I’ll take care of myself. If the day comes when I feel the need for a boat that represents more of a financial asset than I am willing to risk, then I’ll look into insurance that will cover a loss even if it’s a loss as the result of someone else’s negligence. My boat - my responsibility. If I damage your boat, I understand that it could cost me everything I own. However, if your boat represents more than you can lose, perhaps you should protected yourself and not count on the next guy. Irresponsible attitude? Maybe. But maybe it’s just reality. It sounds like there are a lot of uninsured sailors out there.

[donradcliffe]

Most hull insurance policies are all-risk, which means that if your boat is damaged for any reason, including by an uninsured boater, your company will pay for fixing it.

[hellosailor]

"I'm with you. If I get into an accident that's my fault, I'll pay. I'm careful."
Congratulations, while entering Big Bucks Marina you were stung by a bee and collapsed from anaphylactic shock. Or knocked unconcious by a tortoise dropped by a passing eagle. (Aescheulus was supposedly killed that way.)

Now your boat, in a nice 15 knot breeze, starts to play pinball through the anchorage, sideswiping a couple of cheap 75-footers before hitting the Honey Fitz and punching a hole that floods and sinks her.

I now you're a nice guy--but is your checkbook REALLY that deep?

I know that with the cost of everything going sky high, the temptation to drop insurance is very attractive. And I guess if you never enter marinas that require liability insurance, you can get away with it. Still, it could be awful easy to lose everything you own if "**** happens" catches up to you.

We all complain about the cost of insurance--but somehow no one wants to start up a "mutual assurance company", which is what insurance used to be all about. No one wants to start up a private company that pools its money to protect the members, apparently the risks are too high for most takers.

[anotherT34C]

Originally Posted by hellosailor

Congratulations, while entering Big Bucks Marina you were stung by a bee and collapsed from anaphylactic shock. Or knocked unconcious by a tortoise dropped by a passing eagle. (Aescheulus was supposedly killed that way.)

Now your boat, in a nice 15 knot breeze, starts to play pinball through the anchorage, sideswiping a couple of cheap 75-footers before hitting the Honey Fitz and punching a hole that floods and sinks her.

I now you're a nice guy--but is your checkbook REALLY that deep?

That would have to fall under the category of 'too bad for you'. Protect your own assets with insurance if you want, but I feel no obligation to carry enough insurance to cover any superyacht(s) in the world I might concieveably be capable of damaging. What's the Sultan of Brunei cruising in?

If the Kennedys park their yacht next to me, and I break a well-set anchor (can happen) and crash into them while I'm ashore, too bad for them. Don't park your Rolls Royce next to a bike rack if you care THAT much about it.

And I'm not really that nice. I'm rather grumpy and misanthropic in fact.

[hellosailor]

Too bad for them? Hmmm.... I don't think they'll care much about that. They'll simply sue you, place a lien on your boat (more likely, physically arest it and seize your other assets following a fast court proceeding), and then take everything you own, including a 10% slice of every cent you ever make in the future.

Of course if you are asset-proof and don't give a damn, they can't do that. Which is why they ask their marina operators to make sure "No shoes, no shirt, no insurance? NO SERVICE!" Too many asset-less folks have done too much damage, the rest of the world doesn't want to get stuck with the bill for it.

Kinda like taxes: No one really cares if you want a fire department, they're just going to make sure that everyone who lives within range of flying sparks, helps pay for one.

[anotherT34C]

Originally Posted by hellosailor

Too bad for them? Hmmm.... I don't think they'll care much about that. They'll simply sue you, place a lien on your boat (more likely, physically arest it and seize your other assets following a fast court proceeding), and then take everything you own, including a 10% slice of every cent you ever make in the future.

With due process, they can try. Good luck convincing the judge, if I'm not found negligent.

If a guy parks his Rolls next to my bicycle, and the wind knocks it down into his door, he'll need good luck suing me for a 10K paint job.

What's up with people thinking they can buy their way out of risk in life? Has western civilization gotten so cushy that we now feel entitled to a cocoon of absolute security?

[hellosailor]

Ah, not being responsible for the damage, that's something else again. Or you might think so. The problem is, anyone can sue anyone for anything in America, and most of the time the courts will let it go forward. So even if you are the wrong guy, and there's no reason you should be sued, someone can sue you and you can wind up shelling out five figures in attorney fees just to get to the point where the court says "Dismissed."

Either way, the costs can be disastrous.

[anotherT34C]

Originally Posted by hellosailor

Ah, not being responsible for the damage, that's something else again. Or you might think so. The problem is, anyone can sue anyone for anything in America, and most of the time the courts will let it go forward. So even if you are the wrong guy, and there's no reason you should be sued, someone can sue you and you can wind up shelling out five figures in attorney fees just to get to the point where the court says "Dismissed."

Either way, the costs can be disastrous.

I can't go through life scared of that. I can conceive of hundreds of scenarios where I'm sued for millions of $$, where no insurance on the planet would help. Hell, in America a burglar who slips and falls inside your house can sue you. Will they win? Probably not, but maybe.

Others can insure their own assets for whatever they want, if they so choose. If I destroy a $2mil yacht by a freak accident, their insurance company will replace the yacht, and then they can try to fight me in court.

Besides, what would you do if you were hit by a non-American in an anchorage?

[jackiepitts]

It sounds like we are all on our own in regards to protecting our property by the tone of this thread.
So I am curious if one of those mega yachts (or even my 26 ton boat) hits you and does damage to your 30 foot boat we can just tell you to take us to court and forget about giving insurance information or being responsible in any way? I mean that is the risk you took by anchoring next to a big boat?
After all what is fair for one person should be fair for all.
hmmm something is wrong with this picture don't you think?

[Pblais]

Ah, not being responsible for the damage, that's something else again. Or you might think so. The problem is, anyone can sue anyone for anything in America, and most of the time the courts will let it go forward.

In other countries it can go the other way. If you get tangled with a local they can throw you in jail and hold you hostage until you come up with the money. The world is not like the US every where. It's not really the mega yacht you need to worry about it's the your boat just sank and now you have a mess to clean up. You don't sail away and they have you. The liability from an environmental fuel spill can be far more than your boat was ever worth. No one cares if you lose your boat but the damage that lose causes may be the burden you can not escape given your means of escape just sunk. It's all too easy to say so what if the rich mega yacht can't collect from you but that isn't the whole story. Trash a local fisherman's runabout and he can't work or gets injured and suddenly local officials want your hide. Liability is not something you can walk away from if the local officials decide you should not be allowed to leave the scene of an accident given you can't.

If you choose to say you don't care if you lose your boat that is one thing and is your decision but the responsibility that can come from the other side of the coin can be far greater than your sorry old boat was ever hoped to have been worth.

There are cases where you can very well rot in jail until your relatives come up with the money. From the other side you suddenly become the rich mega yacht owner that trashed the local environment. Local people every where do care about their local politics and people and don't care as much about you.

[LeeSailor]

What I was trying to say is that if I damage your boat, then I pay to the full extent of my ability. If that's not enough, then do what you must.

If you damage my boat, I would expect you to pay to the full extent of your ability. If you have insurance, that would be great for both of us. If not, we’ve both lost. C’est la vie.

In a perfect world, I’d like see everyone capable of being financially responsible for their actions; either with insurance or cash. The problem I see with some of the attitudes in this thread is that some posters seem to take the position that those who can’t afford insurance don’t belong on the water. The other side of that coin is, those who can’t assume life’s risks don’t belong on the water. (sorry)

Maybe we should pass a law that requires everyone to have insurance. Building the pool of premiums should bring the cost down; shouldn’t it?

[Therapy]

[quote=LeeSailor;169639]

Maybe we should pass a law that requires everyone to have insurance. Building the pool of premiums should bring the cost down; shouldn’t it?[/quote]



Dream on.

Originally Posted by pblais

Local people every where do care about their local politics and people and don't care as much about you

Ain't that the truth.