Making an offer - advice please

[mat jam]

Before making an offer ask lots of questions. Their response will be telling. If they huff and puff over many questions walk away. If they do not really answer questions walk away. They should be accommodating. When I looked at boats (for over two years) and made many inquiries I quickly realized who was sincere and who was trying to flog a bad boat.

The sailing channel Wynns discussed their cat purchase where they made an offer and the broker representing the seller did not inform the owner because he wanted to double dip and get a double commission via an offer through his client. They fortunately ran into the owner who asked why they had not made an offer. They ended up buying that cat

After you are satisfied with the boat, after much detailed questions and are still satisfied, make an offer. Do not give a deposit without a contract. If the offer is accepted they will ask you to sign a contract. I asked for many changes to the contract, even for wording. After the changes were made I deposited 20% into an escrow account. This was all dependent on a survey and their end having presented factual information. Then I flew over to the EU to inspect the boat. But I also had a backup boat in a neighboring country that I was also interested in and a number of other boats I could check out if these two were out. It is a buyers market and there are many good deals so be patient and whatever you do, do not fall for a boat and treat it as a pragmatic objective transaction.

Also will add, addressing another post, sellers will have numerous brokers for their boat since they are trying to sell it. When I was searching I would often see the same boat offered by different brokers. Due diligence is required - make sure there are no liens against the boat. And ask to communicate with the owner directly which is what I did.

[Paul L]

The goal here is to have the seller accept your offer. Having no earnest money in the offer makes it a weaker offer from the sellers point of view. If the seller accepts your offer they will be taking the boat off the market and possibly loose another buyer. If you not only don't want to put up earnest money but you make your reason that it will cost you a few hundred if the deal falls through, you are not going to look like a strong buyer.
The 10k is not a magic number and not what I would do. Depending on the boat price 1 to 5k should be fine.

[mat jam]

And, you are the only one who can make a reasonable assumption as to what the boat is worth. Make an offer based on what you are comfortable with. Have a price in mind what it is worth to you. I made an offer of 20% less than asking. They countered with a 5% less asking price which I agreed to as I was just assessing their position. It was a great deal based on what similar boats were going for yet my boat had a complete refurbish with all major components replaced and a lot more new gear and custom made gear. I later found out I got the boat for less than 1/3 the original asking price. Was it worth that much? Based on the same boats and condition and gear, easily double what I paid.

[Ibetitsthisway]

Never... Never nerver Ever.....


I meant never!
Buy from a Broker. Why Would you?

Old enough to talk to a sellerAre you Not?
Nothing beats Personal sale and knowledge ofthe seller afterwards.
If a seller is Too lazy to sell himself... I Am out.

[Paul L]

Originally Posted by Ibetitsthisway

Never... Never nerver Ever.....


I meant never!
Buy from a Broker. Why Would you?

Old enough to talk to a sellerAre you Not?
Nothing beats Personal sale and knowledge ofthe seller afterwards.
If a seller is Too lazy to sell himself... I Am out.

This advice makes little sense to me. The majority of boats are listed with and advertised by a broker. That's why you buy through a broker. Check the number of boats listed on Yachtworld. All by broker.

[thinwater]

Originally Posted by Paul L

This advice makes little sense to me. The majority of boats are listed with and advertised by a broker. That's why you buy through a broker. Check the number of boats listed on Yachtworld. All by broker.

I sold my last boat for 6 figures without a broker. I had a web site and listed it several other places. Word of mouth actually sold it. We used title service to do the paperwork, searches, and escrow the money. They paid a lawyer (very little) to supply the contracts. Yes, there was a survey. Much cheaper, less weird, and businesslike and secure.



You don't need a broker. Some earn their money by finding a good match, some not so much. You do, of course, have to respect existing contracts/listing agreements.

[Knotical]

I paid 10% deposit with the contract paperwork, AFTER the offer was accepted by the seller.

To put down 10% just to present the offer to the seller is ridiculous IMO. If I am putting down any money I need to see paperwork.

[1affiah]

Not defending the broker, but without a deposit or "earnest money", you are just another tire kicker, lookie louie or potential scammer.

[Paul L]

Originally Posted by thinwater

I sold my last boat for 6 figures without a broker. I had a web site and listed it several other places. Word of mouth actually sold it. We used title service to do the paperwork, searches, and escrow the money. They paid a lawyer (very little) to supply the contracts. Yes, there was a survey. Much cheaper, less weird, and businesslike and secure.



You don't need a broker. Some earn their money by finding a good match, some not so much. You do, of course, have to respect existing contracts/listing agreements.

The comment I was disagree8ng with was "never, ever buy from a broker". Nothing to do with listing your boat.

[crankysailor]

Originally Posted by Paul L

This advice makes little sense to me. The majority of boats are listed with and advertised by a broker. That's why you buy through a broker. Check the number of boats listed on Yachtworld. All by broker.

Yet it is good advice in the general sense. Buying a boat is not like buying a house or a car.. you are buying its history and thus you are buying the previous owner(s). If you don't get to know him or her, you will be buying something blind. Also, I am yet to meet the first broker who is honest, hard working and transparent. I am sure they exist, I personally just haven't had the luck of finding one...and I have had dealings with dozens.

It is true that it is harder to find a suitable boat sold by a good owner..but few things in life worth doing are easy. Good luck on you search!

[jkleins]

I probably would never accept an offer that didn’t have some significant money behind it. By accepting an offer you basically are giving up your negotiating position.
If you do this with no guarantee that the buyer will go through they can make several low ball offers to other buyers all at the same time and just pick and choose if more then one is accepted. They could just say “well if you will take that maybe you will take a lower offer”.
If I decide to accept an offer I want some assurance that it will go through at that price. It probably doesn’t need to be 10% to be significant for me but would need to at least be enough to keep the buyer in the game.

[Paul L]

Originally Posted by crankysailor

Yet it is good advice in the general sense. Buying a boat is not like buying a house or a car.. you are buying its history and thus you are buying the previous owner(s). If you don't get to know him or her, you will be buying something blind. Also, I am yet to meet the first broker who is honest, hard working and transparent. I am sure they exist, I personally just haven't had the luck of finding one...and I have had dealings with dozens.

It is true that it is harder to find a suitable boat sold by a good owner..but few things in life worth doing are easy. Good luck on you search!

Firstly, I'm not looking for a boat now. Got all the boat I need.
It makes no sense to limit your search for a serious cruising boat to only owner listed boats. The plain reality is that the vast majority of boats are broker listed and that's where you are most likely to find the boat you want. When negoiating on the boat I am not interested in the brokers opinions or negotiating with the broker. It is the seller that you are negoiating with. I try to have direct contact with the seller, although this is not always possible. At the end of the day you are buying a boat, not trying to become best friends with the broker or the seller.

[daletournier]

Originally Posted by Ibetitsthisway

Never... Never nerver Ever.....


I meant never!
Buy from a Broker. Why Would you?

Old enough to talk to a sellerAre you Not?
Nothing beats Personal sale and knowledge ofthe seller afterwards.
If a seller is Too lazy to sell himself... I Am out.

Never buying through a broker majorly limits your selection, what percentage of boats for sale are with a broker? I'd suggest a majority.

I wouldnt hesitate buying the right boat through a broker I'm not paying his commission.

You say "why would you?", I say why wouldnt you? I find it easier to deal with a broker, I'm not interested in his feelings.

[Tillsbury]

Certainly it’s easier to buy through a broker. The broker can suggest other boats you might not otherwise have considered, and knows which boats have to sell and which don’t. They are also usually much better at breaking the bad news to the seller and helping them come to terms with a realistic price for the boat. Here in NZ everyone thinks their boat is worth millions, and those few private sellers there are are wildly optimistic about the price and often just wasting everyone’s time.

[Ibetitsthisway]

Originally Posted by daletournier

Never buying through a broker majorly limits your selection, what percentage of boats for sale are with a broker? I'd suggest a majority.

I wouldnt hesitate buying the right boat through a broker I'm not paying his commission.

You say "why would you?", I say why wouldnt you? I find it easier to deal with a broker, I'm not interested in his feelings.

Haha... Of course you Are paying his cimmission because the seller will ask a higher price having his cimmussion duty in Mind.



Feelings Are Every Thing! In dealing With people Emotions are a strong Instrument.

There will be no better after sale Service... No better price and no greater Joy in owning the boat as If buyer and seller like each other Personaly.


An owner That wants to give "an important Part of his life" into "good Hands" is likely to having cared for his boat good and Chance is high That it is in good shape!


If some has so little interest in his boat That He has some one Else Selling it for him...

Than it is not my boat.



And by the way... The behaviour and wording and often Reaktion Times... And Office hours of Brokers... Salesmen in General... Are tyring me.


Privat seller Are often optimistic about price.

Well.. Yes.. But a Broker can only sell what the owner agrees to. If the Broker can convince the seller than everone Else can Too.

... Speaking about Personal chemistry again..