My yacht is impounded

[PaulvR]

If all you lose is the boat, you should consider it school fees.

[lestersails]

Originally Posted by Enfant Du Vent

Forget lawyers or insurance companies--it's all about who you know.

Case in point:
I read a story about a doctor from New York letting his captain take a Hinckley back to the Caribbean after they'd all sailed north one spring. Sure enough, when the captain returned to the US he was caught--and the boat impounded--for smuggling drugs. But 24 hours after the owner made one call the Coast Guard brought the boat back to his dock...and, wearing cloth booties, were polishing the brass.
Apparently the doctor, a cardiac surgeon, called the husband of one of his recent patients. Seems the patient and her husband were living in Washington, D.C.--at 1600 Pennsylvania Ave.

Please provide a legitimate journalistic source for this. All urban myths begin with "I read a story..."

[valhalla360]

Originally Posted by ArmyDaveNY

I agree with most of your comment (NB For those who have not read the original post, I have deleted most of the quote with the sections above). The exception is in the first statement, and even then it is not a total disagreement.

In many cases this is true, but not in all. There are exceptions where the presumption is guilty until proven innocent. I have already mention the evil and unconstitutional (in the U.S.) civil asset forfeitures. In this case, the government is legally allowed to steal your assets based upon a government agency's thought that you might be guilty, so therefore you have to prove your innocence. Even if you prove your innocence, you MIGHT get some of your assets back.

Another area where the government assumes your guilt is with regards to many tax laws. In Canada , you are assumed guilty unless the charge is tax evasion. For example, if you are accused of under reporting income, the CRA or Canada Revenue Agency will assume you are guilty and must prove your innocence. The CRA can impose outrageously hefty fines. This even includes cases of negligence that falls short of evasion. The U.S. does similar things and also assumes guilt in cases other than evasion. This link has a much more detailed description of this: https://www.pushormitchell.com/2019/...oven-innocent/

In the UK, citizens can be convicted for failing to unlock encrypted material even without proof that the material is illegal or contains evidence of illegal activity.

Having said all this, it will be a difficult path forward for the OP. Even if he is determined to be innocent or found not guilty in a court of law, he still will likely have a difficult time getting his vessel back, and any compensation for any damages.

I will agree Civil Forfeitures are a different matter entirely as they often operate outside of any attempt at due process.

The rest, I think you are confusing Civil vs Criminal matters. Civil matters are the preponderance of the evidence. Criminal is beyond a reasonable doubt. Think OJ when he was found not guilty but he still lost the civil case.

Tax reporting, they are not determining guilt. There is typically no criminal charges. It's more along the lines of a civil case where it's the preponderance of the evidence (not that they aren't heavy handed about it). It's not much different from the bank charging an overdraft fee...they take the money first and then it gets hashed out who has 51% of the evidence in their favor. If it gets to the point of criminal charges, everything stops and it moves to beyond a reasonable doubt.

Likewise, in the UK cell phone example, the guilt is that you refused to share evidence when legally required to do so. That guilt must be determined separately from the murder for hire scheme. I'm not versed in UK law but assuming it's similar, you don't have a right to hide evidence. This is different from testifying against yourself. Once you put it in writing, it's now evidence not testimony. Hiding evidence from the discovery process is a separate crime that you would be found guilty of after due process. This is a lot like Capone never went to jail for mob murders but for income tax evasion. He couldn't properly report and pay his taxes without coming clean about his other illegal behaviors...so they got him for what they could.

But this isn't a case where Civil Forfeiture is at issue. The court holding evidence used in the act of committing a crime is different from forfeiture. So far the final disposition of the boat hasn't been made...but short of it turning out the mechanic was carrying a ton of powdered sugar for personal consumption...it's unlikely the OP is getting his boat back but it will have to go thru the process first.

If he really is innocent and loses the boat, his complaint is with his mechanic not the legal system. So far there has been no indication that the mechanic didn't really have a ton of cocaine on the OP's boat, so it's legitimately being held as evidence in the case.

[ronbo1]

As a last resort you may find an out of work black ops group to retrieve it.

Good luck

[lestersails]

Originally Posted by mlinden

I have heard of people having their boat stolen and then finding it and re-stealing it back. I wonder if you could hire a team to take the boat back. Once in international waters, I'm not sure anyone can touch them.

Unless, of course, S Africa and Spain/EU have extradition treaties. And even if they don't, you think this boat would be cleared in by S African customs because Spain wouldn't think to alert those authorities of its likely destination? This has got to be the worst advice I have seen so far. Almost as clueless as the OP.

[dbraymer]

Sounds like a visit to the Canary Islands is in store.

Many smaller nations have much more malleable legal systems than the larger industrialized nations. If you go there with the correct paperwork, explain the situation carefully, convince everyone involved that you had nothing to do with drug smuggling, find the right guy who has some sort of leverage on the other right guy, you may get it back. 50/50 chance, 20/80 chance, I do not know.

You see this all the time in various ports. Vessels seized in maybe pretty good condition. And there they sit, years later, sometimes the sails have never been recovered, they are still flapping away, what is left of them.

Your vessel is taking up space. The space is valuable. You have to start near the water level, with the guy who would rather have the dock space. Work your way up the line from the guy who would rather have the vessel sail away.

Good luck and enjoy your stay in the Canaries.

Rule of thumb is the harder you try to make something happen fast, the slower it will go.

[valhalla360]

Originally Posted by Celestialsailor

So here's my take away from all this...Please realize if you take a guest out for a sail as we all do. Even making it perfectly clear to them, you DO NOT want any recreational drugs onboard. Even though you might do that and they lite up anyways or get caught during a USCG boarding, same things happen. They can take your boat and you're screwed.

We all take people out. Some times friends of friends who might not respect your advice not to carry while onboard.

I would have far more sympathy in this scenario. Particularly if you could document you told them not to bring it, you don't have any prior related convictions and the quantities were minimal.

You may not win but it would be a legitimate argument that the punishment does not fit the crime.

This is about a large commercial level shipment of hard drugs worth many times what the boat is worth. Far different from your buddy brought a joint thinking it was no big deal.

[valhalla360]

Originally Posted by Stewie12

Stealing your boat back is not an option. The crew would end up in a Spanish jail.

And once it gets traced back to you, they now will use that as evidence that you are a participant in the smuggling.

[friz]

Originally Posted by fstbttms

Hmm...

Yeah. Nice story.

[taxwizz]

To repeat the thoughts expressed by others in this thread...

This OP is either:
1. Knowingly involved in the drug smuggling , or
2. The dumbest bonehead ever .

Let's vote.

[lestersails]

Originally Posted by taxwizz

To repeat the thoughts expressed by others in this thread...

This OP is either:
1. Knowingly involved in the drug smuggling , or
2. The dumbest bonehead ever .

Let's vote.

Why can't it be both?

[Britboater]

You may consider getting a lawyer to provide your evidence proving you were not complicit in the drug run…..

[redneckrob]

Originally Posted by dbraymer

Sounds like a visit to the Canary Islands is in store.

Many smaller nations have much more malleable legal systems than the larger industrialized nations. If you go there with the correct paperwork, explain the situation carefully, convince everyone involved that you had nothing to do with drug smuggling, find the right guy who has some sort of leverage on the other right guy, you may get it back. 50/50 chance, 20/80 chance, I do not know.

You see this all the time in various ports. Vessels seized in maybe pretty good condition. And there they sit, years later, sometimes the sails have never been recovered, they are still flapping away, what is left of them.

Your vessel is taking up space. The space is valuable. You have to start near the water level, with the guy who would rather have the dock space. Work your way up the line from the guy who would rather have the vessel sail away.

Good luck and enjoy your stay in the Canaries.

Rule of thumb is the harder you try to make something happen fast, the slower it will go.

The Canary Islands are Spain. I think most people consider Spain a "larger industrialized nation". You definitely aren't going to find a dockmaster is going to give away something impounded as evidence any more than you could go to a police impound lot anywhere in Spain and get the guy working the lot to give you a car that's being held as evidence back because he's simply tired of it taking up space.

[Giro]

In my humble opinion, most of the replys being offered here resemble morbid, non professional attempts to instill a sense of hopelessness in your pursuit of help and potential justice. My best advise is to contact experienced, legal counsel (one well seasoned in matters such as these) before jumping to any drastic conclusions with regard to retrieving custody of your vessel or whether you may face extenuating personal, legal consequences.

[taxwizz]

Originally Posted by lestersails

Why can't it be both?

I think that they are mutually exclusive.