Never Buy a Boat in the Spring

[Foswick]

Just a rant ...

We are just closing on a boat purchase. The boat is physically a 2-3 hour drive (or 2-3 day sail) south of us and has a few things I want done before bringing her up here. Not a huge deal except that trying to get anything done relatively quickly in the middle of May is challenging my negotiating skills.

Of course, the problem is that everyone is trying to get into marinas and boatyards at the same time.

The boat is within a short sail or motor to at least a half-dozen haulout facilities, so I would have thought it wouldn't be that hard. I started the process at the beginning of May and (foolishly) agreed to a May 21 closing date. So, that means that in three weeks I needed to:

1. Find a surveyor who was both good and available. (My regular guy could do me a favor and squeeze me in on May 24.)
2. Get a haulout for the survey that happened to be on the same day as the surveyor was available.
3. Schedule a water trial for that same day. (The broker handled this, fortunately, since the seller lives two states away.)
4. Get the water trial and survey done.
5. Follow up with specialists on engine or rigging issues identified in the survey.
6. Insurance ... don't get me started about insurance.
7. Arrange for moorage in my home port. This means getting on a transfer waitlist from my current slip to get into a larger slip. So, I don't really know when my name will come up on the transfer list.
8. Arrange for moorage at the boat's current location, so I can do work and bring her up when she is ready and I have moorage up here.
9. Arrange for a second haulout to get work done that we identified during inspection (just bottom paint and seacock replacement ... but still.)

Anyway, you get the point.

I will say, several people have really been great in this process. But, the boatyards are really booked solid, and I am looking at mid-June as the earliest date for my second haulout to get work done.

Woe is me.

[Montanan]

Consider that practice for whence you will sell the boat in the Spring.

Actually, winter season is much harder to accommodate as one has to break the ice to launch or have the boat pulled, unless the boat is an iceboat.

Frozen halyards and roller furling lines are a challenge to operate.

And then there is the hurricane season to have to contend with where insurance policies require the boat to be on the hard or removed from the storm hazard zone.

[Foswick]

Yeah, we are actually a 2-yacht family, right now. So, amidst all of this, I need to maintain and sell our old boat. I am fortunate to be in place in life where I have this problem.

I guess I would revise my rant ...

Buy a new boat in the spring, so you can sail her right away all summer. Buy a used boat in the fall/winter when you can get used-boat projects done before launching her in the spring.

But, then again, it is a hassle to water trial a boat that has already been winterized.

I guess the message is - never buy a boat and just stay home. So much easier.

[S/V Illusion]

To put this in context, A problem limited to only certain places. The world is a big place.

[Foswick]

Originally Posted by S/V Illusion

To put this in context, A problem limited to only certain places. The world is a big place.

Obviously.

This presumes a relatively short "season". Around here, some of us are die-hards and will sail year round. But, there is a pretty narrow window when the weather is reliably "pleasant".

People seem almost surprised when it starts getting nice in May, and it occurs to them they might want to get out on the water. Then, everyone wants the same thing at the same time.

A similar run happens in the fall. People defer work until fall, thinking they'll avoid the rush.

For me, the ideal time to get stuff done is the end of November to early December. The fall rush is winding down and trades people are thinking about making a little extra bread for the holidays.

[desodave]

With all due respect I think that you should have thought some of these issues out beforehand imo. We bought a new to us boat three springs ago when the covid surge in the boat market was underway. I checked with our marina re slip availability for the boat length we were contemplating ... they would take a 42' boat in the same slip as our 38 was sitting, and we would have had to pay transient rates for anything longer ... no permanent 50' slips available. So we restricted ourselves to no longer than 42.

I immediately set about finding a reputable surveyor, and was fortunate to find one who could do the job just after our time limit. The broker negotiated an extension. Our haulout for the survey was scheduled for a Monday. On Friday the yard dropped a 48' powerboat from its lift ... closing the yard for weeks. The broker scrambled to find another lift ( 3 weeks later) and we talked to the surveyor ... he agreed to do the inwater part as scheduled and the out of water on the date arranged by the broker. The broker arranged for another time limit extension.

I started on insurance for the new boat immediately and had it arranged in advance subject to successful survey results. It was done quickly following the survey.

The sea trial was also postponed because of the yard accident and there was followup mechanical because of it ... another short extension.

The broker earned his commission rearranging the haulout and negotiating extensions. It got him our old boat to sell and that eventually involved a time limit extension too. I also had to get the old boat on the broker's dock ( 3 days away) before taking delivery of the new boat so I had a space to put it in my marina without absorbing transient costs.

I would not have wanted to be moving boats in late November, early December, nor even trying to schedule a sea trial in that time frame given the regular winter storms. And then to be winterizing a new boat before any chance of using it (beyond a delivery) does not appeal to me at all. The sale on our old boat would not have happened as quickly in November/December so we would have had additional moorage/insurance costs to absorb on the transactions.

I appreciate the difficulties in closing a sale, especially dealing with the unexpected. But I'd much rather do all that in the spring with its long daylight hours, nicer weather and more buoyant market than try to it late in the year.

[Kd9truck]

I bought in January and then sold in April 8 years ago. For all the reasons you mentioned, I had 3 perspective buyers and told the one I liked he had first dibs, and I offered help delivering, he bit.
On the new purchase I held back 20k at closing in February (the price I sold my previous vessel) for the sea trial in April as the “new-to-me” was on the hard, the seller/PO grumbled about it but I told the broker it would not happen any other way, I’m not a tuff guy.
I was/am lucky it happened like it did, but it did not happen without some needed steering of objectives with course corrections along the way.

I had moved to a larger mooring ball in a more spread out section the season prior in hope that I would be returning larger. Luck helped me again because there happen be an opening from a vessel sale in the fall. There’s waiting lists now for each section.

Sometimes the universe shines on us, other times it just shines

[Foswick]

Originally Posted by desodave

I think that you should have thought some of these issues out beforehand imo.

Wow, really? That is great advice. So, you're saying that I should have considered some of this beforehand, and the process would have gone smoother? That is some revolutionary thinking.

I think you're right though. We should all anticipate things we don't foresee as being a problem because we might later find out that they were, in fact, more difficult than anticipated.

Let me write that down ...

[PJS]

Originally Posted by Foswick

Wow, really? That is great advice. So, you're saying that I should have considered some of this beforehand, and the process would have gone smoother? That is some revolutionary thinking.

I think you're right though. We should all anticipate things we don't foresee as being a problem because we might later find out that they were, in fact, more difficult than anticipated.

Let me write that down ...

You opened it up with a "rant" and received a comment. The comment was valid. In the NW, the fair weather season is short and if you are a seasoned boater as you indicate, you should know haul out spots are limited and hard to come by. Slips are even harder to come by.

So, I would agree, you could have lined up slip wait lists, you could have got a list of haul out locations and availability, you could have lined up a surveyor ahead and just coordinate dates when the time was right... There were things you could have done to mitigate the position you are in now. You didn't and now want to "rant"?

You put it out there, got constructive feedback and you don't like it. Don't be such a Richard...

[5BTM]

I bought mine in May as well, however, my experience was slighty different.


1- didn't bother with a survey.

2- boat was already on the hard

3- Didn't bother

4- See 3

5- See 3

6- No problem insuring for market value (61% of what I paid)

7- Purchased price included mooring for the season in a yacht club in my
neighborhood. Bypassing the waiting list was the actual reason I bought
the boat.

8 and 9 were not applicable.


BTW, I paid the asking price "as is where is"
I am sure the previous owner went to his grave regretting he didn't ask for more.

[cdocsail]

Originally Posted by Foswick

Just a rant ...

We are just closing on a boat purchase. The boat is physically a 2-3 hour drive (or 2-3 day sail) south of us and has a few things I want done before bringing her up here. Not a huge deal except that trying to get anything done relatively quickly in the middle of May is challenging my negotiating skills.

Of course, the problem is that everyone is trying to get into marinas and boatyards at the same time.

The boat is within a short sail or motor to at least a half-dozen haulout facilities, so I would have thought it wouldn't be that hard. I started the process at the beginning of May and (foolishly) agreed to a May 21 closing date. So, that means that in three weeks I needed to:

1. Find a surveyor who was both good and available. (My regular guy could do me a favor and squeeze me in on May 24.)
2. Get a haulout for the survey that happened to be on the same day as the surveyor was available.
3. Schedule a water trial for that same day. (The broker handled this, fortunately, since the seller lives two states away.)
4. Get the water trial and survey done.
5. Follow up with specialists on engine or rigging issues identified in the survey.
6. Insurance ... don't get me started about insurance.
7. Arrange for moorage in my home port. This means getting on a transfer waitlist from my current slip to get into a larger slip. So, I don't really know when my name will come up on the transfer list.
8. Arrange for moorage at the boat's current location, so I can do work and bring her up when she is ready and I have moorage up here.
9. Arrange for a second haulout to get work done that we identified during inspection (just bottom paint and seacock replacement ... but still.)

Anyway, you get the point.

I will say, several people have really been great in this process. But, the boatyards are really booked solid, and I am looking at mid-June as the earliest date for my second haulout to get work done.

Woe is me.

I assume ther surveyor goes out on the sea trial?
Then when he writes up the list of things 'wrong' how do you decide to pay for them? How much of what is 'wrong' do you then expect the seller to pay for by dropping his price?

[Foswick]

Originally Posted by PJS

... got constructive feedback ...

Constructive? Like childish namecalling?

The comments struck me the wrong way because it is like somebody standing on the dock and saying, "All due respect, but you shouldn't have crashed into the dock." Not constructive - just stating the obvious. I put myself out there, "confessing" the mistakes I had made for the purpose hopefully contributing something useful to the community.

Let's move on, shall we?

The point, which I thought was obvious, is that spring is a difficult time of year to get things done on a short time table (around here at least). If you attempt this, as I did, be prepared for some difficulties.

Prior to this transaction, I had never attempted to get anything done in the spring. So, I severely underestimated how difficult it would be. Obviously, some prior awareness would have been useful, but you don't know what you don't know and hindsight is 20/20.

I closed on the boat, yesterday. The seller, the broker, the surveyor, the boatyard, and the marina were all great in being flexible to make this happen. (The tight timeline wasn't mine, by the way.) So, although hectic, it was a good transaction, overall.

[Foswick]

Originally Posted by cdocsail

I assume ther surveyor goes out on the sea trial?
Then when he writes up the list of things 'wrong' how do you decide to pay for them? How much of what is 'wrong' do you then expect the seller to pay for by dropping his price?

We negotiated a fair price. To me, there is something disingenuous about buying an old boat and expecting the seller to pay to fix certain things. (Obviously, it depends on the item and the negotiated price.) It is an old boat, and there are going to be some things that need work. I think it is OK to negotiate down only if those deficiencies are not already priced in.

In our case, I inspected the boat prior to the survey and determined that I was pretty sure I knew what the survey would say - allowing for a mix of good news and bad news. I made an offer based on that assessment, and the seller accepted.

The survey, as expected, came up with a few unexpected good and unexpected bad items, but in balance, I was pretty much spot-on, and there was no need to renegotiate. For example, there is a fatigued bob stay fitting that I was not able to inspect while she was in the water. But, the hull itself was in better shape than I anticipated. In total, the original price we agreed on was still fair.

The sea trial: That is another story entirely. It was an adventure. The engine died on the way to the boatyard and we had to be towed. And yes, we bought the boat anyway. Sure, we could have leveraged the experience to negotiate the price down, but I wouldn't feel good about that. The incident had a clear cause and simple fix (performed by the boatyard).

[Montanan]

Wishing many bon voyages.

Have a great summer sailing.

[GreenWave]

This should be corrected to state dont buy or sell a boat north of the Chesapeake in the winter or spring. In the south you wont have issues with brokers and haul outs.

Insurance is always an issue