No Tax Residence, banks and brokerages

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by GreenWave

Ireland is a poor example of what society needs in general. If every country were like Ireland for businesses, the individual would carry even more burden.

Not sure what mean

In Ireland 2021 here’s a breakdown of Revenue statistics



Note the considerable contribution by volume corporation profits make corporation is ½ income

Here’s Sweden’s for example



The US on the other hand is one of the most egregious tax havens for corporate profits on the planet despite pointing fingers at Ireland and others, largely because us profits return rate is way way below the headline rate. The US extracts one of the greatest tax takes from individuals in the world via income and property taxes , and they get little back in return , no wonder they are annoyed !






NOte the sizes of Ireland’s corporate contribution as compared to income tax ( Ireland has relatively low taxes on income for middle to low earners )

Note Sweden’s , corporation tax is 1/6 of income tax.

It’s the usual left wing BS in Ireland that corporations don’t contribute. Unlike most European countries where the corporation headline rate is far higher then the return rate because of numerous deductions , whereas Ireland has a relatively low corporation rate but few deductions


Interestingly Ireland takes less in “ comsumption “ taxes per budget ( almost exclusively VAT ) then the US extracts from its citizens !,,

[NPCampbell]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

The Scandinavian countries are actually an astonishingly good deal for the taxes you pay there. Business taxes are much lower than in the U.S., property taxes are nearly zero, and you pay no capital gains tax at all unless you take money out of your investment account for consumption. Income taxes are high but they are almost flat, and you get a lot for them. And they are not high compared to U.S. income taxes plus health care costs plus education costs.

Finland and Sweden have amongst the highest income tax and VAT rates in the world.

In Sweden I would pay 45% income tax, a ridiculous 31% company paid payroll tax and 25% VAT.

Those are astonishingly high taxes.

I think I'll suffer through my 3.7% health insurance and 2.7% property tax and I'll lavish in my 20% overall tax savings.

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by NPCampbell

Finland and Sweden have amongst the highest income tax and VAT rates in the world.

In Sweden I would pay 45% income tax, a ridiculous 31% company paid payroll tax and 25% VAT.

Those are astonishingly high taxes.

I think I'll suffer through my 3.7% health insurance and 2.7% property tax and I'll lavish in my 20% overall tax savings.

Most developed countries are “ high tax “ , the US certainly is taken that the whole taxation system

The us tax take is equivalent to 13,000 dollars per person , ( due to negligible corporation tax takes ) Sweden is 15, 000 euros per person( 5/6); , higher yes but not exorbitant. , if you deduct the considerable benefits derived from that higher tax take , against very little return for the US tax payer , the Swede is getting a better deal I would contend

In Ireland’s case cause corporation revenues is such a large part, the contribution is 7,700 per person !! Making it on average far less of a tax burden then even the US. This is because unlike the US and somewhat in Sweden , lreland income is skewed very heavily at higher income earners , ( the median industrial wage is 36,000 euros) leaving middle to low earners paying one of the lowest taxes in the developed world.

Taxation has to looked at in the round , picking selective rates is entirely misleading

[GreenWave]

This proves my point because irelands corporate take is volume driven is it not. For sure the US system is broken. Exceedingly low corporate rates across the board is bad. The US tax rate is high but amount collected is low due to avoidance and stupid loopholes.

[Gadagirl]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

Well, this is a long conversation. I don't want what my military does, not at all. I see a U.S. embassy for something once a year at most, and pay for what I get there. Health care costs money -- pay as you go with gigantic health insurance premiums -- and I have to watch people around me with no access to health care at all. Education costs money (a lot of it), and schools are paid for by exorbitant property taxes, not income taxes, whether I use them or not. Police protection -- yes, sorely needed with U.S. crime rates. I sleep well at night knowing that our men in blue are harassing (if not shooting) black people. You didn't mention our highest prison population in the world -- our tax dollars at work again keeping them locked up.


That's in a very small nutshell. It's not a good deal. It's a much better deal in just about any given European country, particularly the Nordic countries. There you pay a little more on consumption and salary income, but much less on investment and capital income, so it's a really good deal for the capitalist pigs amongst us. And what you get for your taxes is incomparable. Education and health care are not "consumption" there, so the fact that consumption is a bit more taxed is really not a problem. And plus you can sleep at night knowing there aren't people in need around you.

I agree with a lot of what you say. I'm of the persuasion that the corporate pigs in the US have stacked the policy and laws against any fair tax and so we, the unwashed, become disgruntled.

Your example of incarceration levels are valid. It's policy skewed toward corruption, if it weren't written into law it would be considered corruption. Most facilities incarcerating people in the US are private, for profit. So these corporations are earning their profits on contracts financed by tax payer money. Same same for other corporate subsidized by government. There are many. It is sad. It a scheme to move public money into the coffers and profits of private corporations. It incentifies locking people up. From jobs created to local communities to investers to offering free and low wage labor as a means to increasing their bottom line. It's systemic. Too many people are profiting off of incarceration. It's blatantly a transfer of tax payer dollars to a corporation that profits from capacity levels and basically slave labor.

Same with military contracts, oil companies, pharmaceutical,and health care. And education....

And education? I'm ok with paying for education. You state that you you never used that taxpayer funded benefit. I disagree. If you as an employer hired people with a US education of any level, then you have benefited from public education, even if you have no children of your own. Where I live property tax to fund education is not exorbitant. I actually suggested to my county supervisor it was well worth an extra $200 a year to help fund teachers pay. And now we have a push to privatize education. To transfer tax dollars to for profit schools. That is the definition of capitalistic pigs. Creating generations of ignorant desperate people who'd be willing to work for pennies just so they won't starve and keep a supply of cheap labor source to corporations.

Sorry to vent. I'm just very dismayed. Worried about my children's future and my grandchildren s future.

[NPCampbell]

Originally Posted by Gadagirl

I agree with a lot of what you say. I'm of the persuasion that the corporate pigs in the US have stacked the policy and laws against any fair tax and so we, the unwashed, become disgruntled.

This is straight up false.

In 2017, the US had the highest statutory and effective business tax rates of any developed country in the world by a large margin.

After the TCJA was passed in 2017 the US is now just middle of the pack.

High corporate taxes make domestic companies uncompetitive against foreign competitors that have lower tax rates. It's an incredibly lousy method of taxation.

[JBP]

Crypto currency is one option, but the current wide fluctuations aren't great.

Although it is not normally done anymore, you can buy stock and request physical stock certificates, e.g. not stored with any brokerage.

You could keep cash, gold, or other easily traded valuables.

All of these place the burden on you to keep the documents safe, if you lose them, you lose them forever.

[letsgetsailing3]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

Well, this is a long conversation. I don't want what my military does, not at all. I see a U.S. embassy for something once a year at most, and pay for what I get there. Health care costs money -- pay as you go with gigantic health insurance premiums -- and I have to watch people around me with no access to health care at all. Education costs money (a lot of it), and schools are paid for by exorbitant property taxes, not income taxes, whether I use them or not. Police protection -- yes, sorely needed with U.S. crime rates. I sleep well at night knowing that our men in blue are harassing (if not shooting) black people. You didn't mention our highest prison population in the world -- our tax dollars at work again keeping them locked up.

That's in a very small nutshell. It's not a good deal. It's a much better deal in just about any given European country, particularly the Nordic countries. There you pay a little more on consumption and salary income, but much less on investment and capital income, so it's a really good deal for the capitalist pigs amongst us. And what you get for your taxes is incomparable. Education and health care are not "consumption" there, so the fact that consumption is a bit more taxed is really not a problem. And plus you can sleep at night knowing there aren't people in need around you.

I disagree with you.

When you visit the Embassy, you may pay some user fees, but it's nowhere near what you receive in terms of border controls, border security, military support and various protections around the globe based on your passport. When you show that passport in whatever country it is you're visiting or living in, you're getting "a freebie" for the most part. When you get jailed unfairly in another country, there's a number you can call.

Wherever you are, there are some police you can call. You don't have to pay, you just expect some level of laws being applied. If a car runs over you, some medical help may come get you. Sure, you may get a bill, but some level of service is going to be applied no matter what.

There are varying degrees of infrastructure all around you being provided. You're paying taxes somewhere, but you're getting the benefits of that infrastructure everywhere.

You may not appreciate that the U.S. is helping out Ukraine, but that's part of the protection being provided.

That nobody stole your stuff today was because there is some legal infrastructure around you, so you didn't have to worry about it quite like you would have a few hundred years ago. Nobody is likely to steal your boat because there is likely some law enforcement somewhere, even if you don't have to pay them directly.

Yeah, we're certainly not going to agree with all the decisions made. Should someone else's college debt be forgiven just with a swipe of a President's pen, with your dollars and savings being devalued to pay for it? Doesn't seem like it, but there you go.

[Lake-Effect]

Originally Posted by NPCampbell

In 2017, the US had the highest statutory and effective business tax rates of any developed country in the world by a large margin.

After the TCJA was passed in 2017 the US is now just middle of the pack.

High corporate taxes make domestic companies uncompetitive against foreign competitors that have lower tax rates. It's an incredibly lousy method of taxation.

The Effective Tax Rate for Large Corporations

The U.S. had one of the highest corporate tax rates in the world before President Trump's tax reform. The 2012 effective rate was 18.6%. It included:

• Federal tax rate of 35% for the highest income brackets
• A top statutory corporate tax rate of 39.1%, including state corporate taxes

But most large corporations never paid that much. The average corporate tax rate was 29% in 2012, according to a 2017 report by the Congressional Budget Office.

Current (2021) Comparison


...and corporate rates have globally trended downward:

Over the past 40 years, corporate tax rates have consistently declined on a global basis. In 1980, the unweighted average worldwide statutory tax rate was 40.11 percent. Today, the average statutory rate stands at 23.54 percent, representing a 41 percent reduction over the 41 years surveyed.[14]

...
The weighted average statutory corporate income tax rate has declined from 46.52 percent in 1980 to 25.44 percent in 2021, representing a 45 percent reduction over the 41 years surveyed.

So, you're technically correct that the US went from having one of the highest TOP corporate rates, to having one more in line with other developed countries. The TCJA in detail.

Anyway, this is tangential to the apparently common dissatisfaction with the complexity of the US tax systems (and what you get for it), compared to other countries.

[valhalla360]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

It's a good question -- indeed the terms are not clear at all.


"To expatriate" -- means to give up your citizenship
to "be an expatriate" -- means to live abroad long term


Yeah, I know it's not logical.

The dictionary definition is simply: Someone who lives outside their native country.

In verb form, it simply means to move abroad.

Technically it doesn't indicate anything about citizenship but in common usage, some people make presumptions regarding citizenship. I'm sure some countries have applied legal definitions which may or may not be consistent with dictionary definition.

If you want to talk about citizenship, you need to be specific...retaining citizenship, obtaining dual citizenship or renouncing citizenship.

[valhalla360]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

Well, this is a long conversation. I don't want what my military does, not at all. I see a U.S. embassy for something once a year at most, and pay for what I get there. Health care costs money -- pay as you go with gigantic health insurance premiums -- and I have to watch people around me with no access to health care at all. Education costs money (a lot of it), and schools are paid for by exorbitant property taxes, not income taxes, whether I use them or not. Police protection -- yes, sorely needed with U.S. crime rates. I sleep well at night knowing that our men in blue are harassing (if not shooting) black people. You didn't mention our highest prison population in the world -- our tax dollars at work again keeping them locked up.

That's in a very small nutshell. It's not a good deal. It's a much better deal in just about any given European country, particularly the Nordic countries. There you pay a little more on consumption and salary income, but much less on investment and capital income, so it's a really good deal for the capitalist pigs amongst us. And what you get for your taxes is incomparable. Education and health care are not "consumption" there, so the fact that consumption is a bit more taxed is really not a problem. And plus you can sleep at night knowing there aren't people in need around you.

Apparently, you haven't looked at the horror of health insurance lately.

While I have some philosophical issues with Obamacare, if you are paying gigantic health insurance premiums or going without, that's by choice.
- Poor people get qualify for medicare.
- Low income get significant subsidies to cover insurance. I'm not particularly poor and only paying about $200/month for a quality plan for a couple.
- If you are high income, you can get a similar plan for about $1200/month.

As you indicate, sure the Europeans pay less for health insurance but they make up for it with higher taxes. Only high end investors have different considerations.

Most of the rest of your post is just a rant that is inconsistent with 99% of reality.

[valhalla360]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

Not sure what mean

In Ireland 2021 here’s a breakdown of Revenue statistics

........

They are making up for low rates by scooping up volume from other countries. They are effectively playing the tax haven game.

For a small country, it kind of works (until there is enough pressure from other countries to end it). For larger or many countries to take up the plan and it's a race to the bottom.

[PaulCrawhorn]

Someone "did their own research" and wants to make sure their bubble doesn't get burst.

The taxpayer does not get to set the terms, There is no such thing as not having a tax residence when dealing with banks that operate legally.

If OP is USian then this idea is truly laughable.

And yes for sure they do not have sufficient funds to make all the overheads worthwhile.

Just pay your damn taxes.

[Lake-Effect]

Originally Posted by valhalla360

For larger or many countries to [drop business/corporate taxes] and it's a race to the bottom.

Well, the race is already on.



And for the US in particular:

[valhalla360]

Originally Posted by Lake-Effect

Well, the race is already on.

.....

Yep, this is why the Ireland corporate tax haven plan example is a poor example of a taxation system that can/should be replicated.

I know at least 2-3 yrs ago, other EU members were wanting to pressure Ireland over the issue. I haven't followed closely so I'm not sure of the current situation.