Sailing Maintenance Costs

[thomm225]

Originally Posted by mikedefieslife

This thread is hilarious. The OP is asking about maintenance, and people start talking about toys, doackage, insurance etc.. all of which have absolutely nothing to do with maintenance.

Similarly there is talk about replacement engines. Seriously, I bet the percentage of boats that have replaced an engine in their owners lifetime is tiny. Just like with a car, most people don't own a boat long enough for need to to do an engine replacement.

Sails, yet repairing is a maintenance cost. Replacing is a capital cost. There are probably cruisers out there though with 10 year old sails and happy. Again, others won't own the boat long enough to consider replacing sails given how long they last for the basic cruiser.

Again, buying a boat in poor condition and spending a load of money on it in the yard to bring it up to scratch before you start using also doesn't count as maintenance.

Actually, the totals for maintenance, slip fees, insurance, etc help one determine what he or she may have to pay

Over 8 years on my 27' boat, the cost for maintenance, berthing, insurance and upgrades averages out to be about $4,263 per year or around $355/month. This based on the new slip fee rates of $9/ft/month for the whole period

I just spend $3,000 over this past Winter on upgrades, paint, and haulout otherwise the average would have been much lower

This includes two engine replacements. One was a second old diesel and one was a new outboard.

it also includes a new mainsail, new dodger and main sail cover. 2 new autopilots, new hand held VHF/GPS, 2 new outboard brackets, new cabin lights and shades, paint for bottom jobs, topside and interior, running rigging, etc

The boat cost was $2,000. The boat was an estate sale so it was in decent shape except for the engine, mainsail, paint, and some of the running rigging as it had sat on the hard unattended for 5 years

[john61ct]

Originally Posted by thomm225

Actually, the totals for maintenance, slip fees, insurance, etc help one determine what he or she may have to pay

Yes but the slip fees & insurance need to be noted separately, when the topic is ongoing maintenance & break / fix / replacement costs.

Many liveaboards rent a slip rarely if ever, and rents vary enormously between say the Gulf vs the Med.

Some want comprehensive insurance while others the required minimum otherwise self insure.

There are threads for overall cruising life costs, and of course very valuable.

Just the topic here is more focused, and already has enough (too many) grey area variables

[zboss]

Originally Posted by UFO

I have not been hit for new sails or engine though and the standing rigging is still good.

and that is how the costs gets under estimated. New sails, new engines, new rigging all need to me amortized into the yearly costs. Anything that is not spent gets rolled into a set-aside for when those items require replacement.

We also need to take into account that this doesn't include updates or improvements, only maintenance. Upgrades such as a more efficient freezer or sails that are better than the sails that are default for charter boats dramatically increase the costs.

IMO, older boats spend more money on upgrades and initial fixes but I find the on-going maintenance to be less because the reality is that you will never have a bristol or better-than-bristol yacht without a massive influx of money and time.

[thomm225]

Originally Posted by john61ct

Yes but the slip fees & insurance need to be noted separately, when the topic is ongoing maintenance & break / fix / replacement costs.

Many liveaboards rent a slip rarely if ever, and rents vary enormously between say the Gulf vs the Med.

Some want comprehensive insurance while others the required minimum otherwise self insure.

There are threads for overall cruising life costs, and of course very valuable.

Just the topic here is more focused, and already has enough (too many) grey area variables

Okay, in that case my maintenance cost over the past eight years would be around $1175/year or about $98/month

This includes:

Replacement Diesel: $1300

New Outboard: $1550

Outboard Brackets: $550

New Mainsail: $1600

Autopilots: $900.

Running Rigging: $300

Bottom Jobs 3X: $2000 includes Haul out, paint, and supplies

Paint and Supplies for topside and interior: $400

Sail Palm, needles etc for sail repair: $100

Handheld VHF: $100

Handheld VHF/GPS $162

Misc: $500

(which pretty much is consistent with my overall with the slip fee at $243/month and liability insurance at $10/month)

[john61ct]

The $5000 boat is a great example of the

"10% of what?" issue.

Take the When New price and account for constant dollars over the 30-50 years.

Then the "getting shipshape" restoration costs in the first few years can blow out, and are still within the "those were relatively expensive years" part of the overall decades' average.

Or, when you "declare done" use the total purchase + restoration costs as the Basis value, and start calculating "maintenance" from there.

Personally I think the former is more realistic as a community standard framework.

[Q Xopa]

Originally Posted by zboss

and that is how the costs gets under estimated. New sails, new engines, new rigging all need to me amortized into the yearly costs. Anything that is not spent gets rolled into a set-aside for when those items require replacement.

We also need to take into account that this doesn't include updates or improvements, only maintenance. Upgrades such as a more efficient freezer or sails that are better than the sails that are default for charter boats dramatically increase the costs.

IMO, older boats spend more money on upgrades and initial fixes but I find the on-going maintenance to be less because the reality is that you will never have a bristol or better-than-bristol yacht without a massive influx of money and time.

Agree mostly.

However it can also be argued that some 'updating' is in reality maintaining current boating accepted standards, which of course are evolving and improving. For example 'maintaining' a boat in insureable condition will require some updating as Safety requirements increase.
It gets a little fuzzy.

[john61ct]

Yes, you would not replace a broken 10-yr old gadget with the same model.

Going from "mid-level then" quality to "current state of the art", when not strictly necessary, sure, maybe only count only half the cost as Maintenance.

[Dan2011]

Thanks everyone for the responses! This is helping me gain a better idea of the actual cost of the maintenance etc. I much prefer these discussions about real word costs even if they do vary. It gives me an idea of the true costs I will be facing.

[zboss]

Originally Posted by nwdiver

If it was 20% per year.......run the boat ragged, 0 maintanace and buy a new one every 6th year.......

That’s pretty much what you do any way when you take into account depreciation.

IMO... add up how much it would cost to replace everything you see on the boat, including all the wiring, electrical panels, etc... and then amortize that price out over 20 to 25 years.

Originally Posted by Q Xopa

Agree mostly.

However it can also be argued that some 'updating' is in reality maintaining current boating accepted standards, which of course are evolving and improving. For example 'maintaining' a boat in insureable condition will require some updating as Safety requirements increase.
It gets a little fuzzy.

I’d agree with that.

[E480]

May I suggest the next post is not a % but rather:
Age of vessel,
Purchase price,
Amount actually spent each year of ownership on maintenance, (no gas, no insurance, no mooring/docking etc)
Lets see real figures.....

[Drewnie]

I agree with prior posts that calculating expenses on the purchase price is a random number when used as a percentage. A lot depends on usage, condition at the time of purchase and plans going forward. Certain factors will dictate how much a boat will cost to maintain, i.e. mono/multihull, mechanical attributes, hull construction, age, and, most importantly, how you plan to use the boat. The more you DIY the better, however, storage, hauling and other factors can add up. Plus, you will always want to have an emergency fund in the event something happens where insurance doesn't cover such an expense. Read and understand your insurance policy!

[mikedefieslife]

Originally Posted by E480

May I suggest the next post is not a % but rather:
Age of vessel,
Purchase price,
Amount actually spent each year of ownership on maintenance, (no gas, no insurance, no mooring/docking etc)
Lets see real figures.....

And intentions too. The maintenance of a boat that plays around in lakes on a weekend is different from something that is crossing oceans, or sailing around cape horn.

Since you want to include insurance and mooring, then it should be a separate thread (perhaps a bit like the solar demo thread), as they have nothing to do with maintenance.

[Drewnie]

I apologize for mentioning factors that play into owning a boat other than pure maintenance. In my mind, all the expenses that are incurred in owning a boat need to be considered before you own a boat. The rest is up to you. And, those factors are totally controlled by how one wants to use and maintain their vessel. I've seen the graveyards in Florida polluting the waters from abandoned boats. It's not a pretty site.

[Dan2011]

Thanks for all the posts everyone! All this information helps!

[E480]

Originally Posted by mikedefieslife

Since you want to include insurance and mooring, then it should be a separate thread .................. ??

Perhaps read the tread AGAIN....