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gulfislandfred · 18-10-2019, 21:36

Your problem is the test sail.

It is perfectly reasonable for the owner to say they want an offer, and a deposit, if you want them to take you for a sail. The broker can show you the boat. That's step one.

The owner doesn't usually get involved until after there's an offer, usually an accepted offer. Just go look at the boat, and decide whether you want to make an offer.

The usual is to look at the boat, decide if you want to go to the next step, then make an offer, with a deposit, subject ot test sail, etc. In my experience, the broker often just holds the cheque until it looks like the sale is likely, then they deposit it (in an escrow account, if they're in Canada)

One of the subjects may be a test sail. Others would be survey, mechanical assessment, etc.

The test sail has messed up your communications. Drop it until you've seen the boat

Heath68 · 19-10-2019, 00:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by LeeV

We've been searching over a year, and while at first the process seemed a bit backwards, I began to see a pattern of boat listings appearing and within a day or two (in some cases) they'd say, "Offer Pending."

With all the storms, insurance checks, etc..., the used market is pretty bare.

I learned that with a good broker (which we had), a good purchase agreement with the "purchase pending visual inspection, survey and sea trial...and 'buyer can walk for any reason thereafter' clause I could make an offer before physically seeing the boat based on photos, reports, videos, etc... and be protected.

We went through that process twice and lost no money because after the visual inspection we cancelled the surveys; the boats were not what we'd been told. We also visited 3 other boats during that process and walked away.

Oddly enough, somebody heard what we were searching for and reached out to us. We have a survey next Monday.

Take your time, read the fine print and go slowly.

Good luck!

I think the last sentence makes a lot of sense. In hindsight I think I'd have probably run through a purchase using heart a lot more than head (I've sucessfully bought businesses on that basis but I thankfully know a lot more about my business area... I know a lot less about boats)

Heath68 · 19-10-2019, 00:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by 01kiwijohn

Only one word for this broker.."Next..". Don't fall for high pressure sales tactic. You've got the dough, you decide what conditions are acceptable.
Looks to me as though you are not convinced that this is the lifestyle you really want. Lots of research;have we reached 'Paralysis by Analysis' here? Suggest you be a little more willing to compromise. Set a departure date, then do what it takes to meet that deadline. (This approach worked for me)
I have a question for you; Why, if you have national health insurance, in the UK, would you be seeking medical treatment in Thailand?

Lol... your post made me chuckle a little. The NHS is a great system for ensuring that everyone regardless of wealth have access to free health care. To stop it becoming too expensive (like Medicare??) there are treatments not available or are only available with a long waiting list and for these we'd rather pay (and thankfully are able to do so) the Thai healthcare system is a paid for system but in some areas offer a superb affordable service.

Back to sailing and the reason for the 3-4yrs of "research" is that 4yrs ago a boat was a floaty thing with a pole in it or something we drove our car on once a year to get to France (ie we knew nothing). I still don't think I know much...

Heath68 · 19-10-2019, 00:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by sdj

Stop explaining and begging. You're only filtering for abusers doing that, and also devaluing yourself in front of worthwhile people.

Put out inquiries and move on. If they come back to you, it's worth it - anything else aint worth sh1t.

True. I suppose I was hoping for support for my impression and constructive criticism... I also come from a background business area where the customer is always right but forgot this is not my industry.
Thanks.
Heath

auskiwi · 19-10-2019, 18:06

A point not noticed is that many of these big Cats are on the hard whilst on display, to go to the expense of launching for a 2 hr test sail is unlikely, without some sort of contract, although the broker should have pointed that out.

Buzzman · 19-10-2019, 18:06

Another analogy might be to comapre with buying a second hand car.

If it's a jalopy, the vendor might be happy for you to take it for a short test drive.

But if you said you wanted to take it for an hour or two...????

Me, personally, I'd want the full price paid and refunded if not satisfied.

YMMV.

Pick up the phone and call the guy. It's a GBP500K boat. What are we talking, a GBP5 quid phone call...??? If that bothers you, get a cheap phone card in Thailand with "100 free international minutes" or whatever, and call the guy for an hour and a half.....

Don't just assume that email is the preferred method of contact.

As others have said, it's often used as a filter.... Those that follow up their inital email with a phone call are to be taken seriously.

Build a bridge, get over it, and jump on a plane. You know you won't be able to sleep nights until you do...

schollr · 19-10-2019, 20:14

Was the boat in the water or needed to be launched (cost for in and out is?). Is the owner available to sail or even nearby?

Paul L · 19-10-2019, 20:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by schollr

Was the boat in the water or needed to be launched (cost for in and out is?). Is the owner available to sail or even nearby?

This is not really relevant. You don't get to do a seatrial before agreeing on a sales contract. If a private seller wishes to offer free boat rides, that's up to them. A broker listed boat won't.

SmoothGhoster · 20-10-2019, 09:43

I think the market is due for a correction. Sorry if off topic but I think in less than a year we'll see a buyers market and some deep discounts like we did last year when the US S&P tumbled. Hopefully we don't see 2008 discounts. You couldn't give a boat away in 2008-09

Mook1e · 21-10-2019, 13:12

You should check out this cat, right there in Thailand

https://www.yachtworld.com/boats/2012/dean-5000-3248491/?refSource=enhanced listing&refSource=enhanced listing

Unless it's a bait and switch.

Belezar · 22-10-2019, 15:16

I just bought my first boat. I happen to be very happy with the broker who had the boat. They did take me seriously. All the boats I looked at were expensive. I did work in a call early on, whether he initiated it or me, I can’t remember but I do know a voice help establish the seriousness of the interest. I was surprised on the “no test sail” aspect. I buy a car - test drive. I buy a plane - test flight. It makes total sense when I see if from the other point of view, but in my head was “this boat costs $$$$ and I can’t sail it first”. I found out that is a sea trial, and comes after a contract is signed and deposit is down. It’s still not a rousing sail but that is tough and takes time. If a half day sail is what you need, then negotiate for it. But it is all fully refundable. The process is different but seems to work. Maybe the fellow was being pushy, I certainly wouldn’t sign anything just to look. I think though your inexperience and no phone call aggravated the situation. Ideally, they would call you first, and follow up but that doesn’t always happen. The phone issue (you didn’t want to make the call on a work cell phone) would set off an alarm to me. Somebody wants to drop serious change but doesn’t have a phone they can call on? Not saying you were wrong at all, but if you’re trying to get service you have to rise above the white noise of the tire kickers. Small items - I wouldn’t buy a boat I couldn’t get on first. It has to feel right. Don’t be in a hurry - there’s another good getting listed right now.

mvweebles · 23-10-2019, 05:42

I moderate the Willard Boat Owners group on Yahoo. Last week, all Y! Groups were informed Yahoo was discontinuing their Groups service so I archived our files. I found the attached Sea Trial checklist I put together back in 2004 when I owned/operated SeaSkills trawler training and delivery services. If I were to update this, I would enhance sections on electronics (both nav and adjuncts such as WiFi-capable gear) as much has changed since then, but it's still a good list to bring along on a sea trial.

SeaSkills Sea Trial Template 1[1].0.pdf

**StuM** · 23-10-2019, 06:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by mvweebles

I moderate the Willard Boat Owners group on Yahoo. Last week, all Y! Groups were informed Yahoo was discontinuing their Groups service so I archived our files. I found the attached Sea Trial checklist I put together back in 2004 when I owned/operated SeaSkills trawler training and delivery services. If I were to update this, I would enhance sections on electronics (both nav and adjuncts such as WiFi-capable gear) as much has changed since then, but it's still a good list to bring along on a sea trial.

Attachment 201976

Most of those items I would check on initial inspection before I thought about making an offer and arranging a sea trial.

And I'd also look at the anchoring system. Not to mention sails etc

mvweebles · 23-10-2019, 07:15

85% of my work back then was on offshore/coastal powerboats such as Nordhavn and similar, so there is obviously a gap on sails.

The prop shaft could be visually inspected and rotated during an initial inspection, and you could check for reverse polarity. But much of the list requires the boat to be powered-up or underway.

I'm finding that for larger boats with expensive electronic and/or A/V installations, repairing systems that were not properly installed and integrated can be extremely expensive to get right. Not uncommon to now see boats theoretically capable of being run off a cell phone, which looks simple but requires a dedicated network with router/server in the background. Simply finding someone who can repair defects is difficult. Paying them to do so can be breathtaking - finding it post-purchase is a heart breaking ordeal and I have seen repair costs run in multiple tranches of $5k each. Granted I suspect that's not the type of boat most people on a sail/cruise list such as this typically own, but if you work backwards from there, you get a feel for what a sea trial can be.