Surveyor was drunk during survey - What do I do?

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Originally Posted by Paul L

Summer cabbage is fine,
At least in the US, you typically do not perform the survey till you have signed a purchase agreement for a fixed price with a deposit. If the survey shows up significant issues with the boat then you can either back out, ask for the issues to be repaired or negotiate a price reduction with the seller.
So the survey often has a lot to do with the final price paid.

The phrase “as is” is a legal term that means the item being sold is being bought “with all of its issues, whether they're known or unknown.” This frees the seller from any responsibility to fix any problems that may occur after the title changes hands,
except if the seller lie to you of condition, Boat be undersea and seller claim never repair a boat.

how this work


1. Finding a Used Boat for Sale from dingy to supertanker
2. Inspecting the Boat Before You Buy (usually 1-2 hour time is money)
maybe if seller think you are a potential buyer
3.after negotiation price maybe Conducting a Sea Trial
4.buy or don't buy.

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Originally Posted by hpeer

Coulda, shoulda, woulda aside...you have the boat and it has issues.

I strongly believe the answer to the question is a very personal one, what is your personality? Are you the kind if guy who will relish the court engagement and derive satisfaction from it? Or are you the one who wants to get out sailing?

A buddy of mine, when discussing divorce, said “Just pay up and get out as soon as possible. Get to the healing phase.” For ME it is better to eat the loss and move forward. The screwing I got (and I got one) is somewhat diminished by the involvement in making the boat right and getting on the water. I derive satisfaction (foolish pride) in doing something better than a “professional”.

That does not make this the correct path for you, just for me.

It is offered as another way to look at your dilemma that may make your decision easier.

I have had poor surveys that cost us close to $10,000 to fix. Not as bad as yours but bad enough. I know the anger about being lied to and cheated. Sucks.

10 years on, and a TON of work and money latter, we live on this boat full time and could not be happier. (Exaggeration, I can ALWAYS be happier! LOL). We could not replace the boat for 3 times the resale value. In the fullness of time things worked out.

But again, our experience, may not apply to you.

You are like me eat **** and go forward. Life is to short to wasting time and money on court/lawyer . But is funny i pay a lawyer 1000$ in cash 1 hour work verbal bill 10 hours, court order other parties must pay expense and i receive 70$ for an expense. i ask the lawyer where is difference .lawyer say what the difference.

[boatpoker]

Originally Posted by more

The phrase “as is” is a legal term that means the item being sold is being bought “with all of its issues, whether they're known or unknown.” This frees the seller from any responsibility to fix any problems that may occur after the title changes hands,
except if the seller lie to you of condition, Boat be undersea and seller claim never repair a boat.

how this work


1. Finding a Used Boat for Sale from dingy to supertanker
2. Inspecting the Boat Before You Buy (usually 1-2 hour time is money)
maybe if seller think you are a potential buyer
3.after negotiation price maybe Conducting a Sea Trial
4.buy or don't buy.

Things work very differently from that in Canada, USA, the Bahamas, Caribbean the UK.
As the OP is in the US, the Croatian practice is irrelevant to his situation.
"As is" sales are rare in these countries and generally restricted to fixer-uppers or worse

[TrentePieds]

Quote: "...At least in the US, you typically do not perform the survey till you have signed a purchase agreement..."

I rather doubt that!

The normal procedure in the English speaking world is to make an Offer to Purchase subject to condition 1), condition 2),.... condition n), and to tender that OFFER to the seller OR his agent along with a deposit "which shall form part of the purchase price".

The subjects enumerate the matters that the BUYER has identified by his own inspection as warranting a look and an opinion from a professional surveyor. e.g. "subject to keel bolts being found in sound condition by Peek & Poke, Marine Surveyors." Surveys are for the Offeror's expense.

When ALL "subjects are lifted", i.e. when the Offeror is satisfied with the boat's condition, and has said so in writing to the seller or his agent, the "Offer" transmutes into a Contract for Purchase and Sale. The purchase sum, minus the amount of the deposit, is then paid in whatever amount has been negotiated in consequence of the lifting of the subjects. The seller, or his agent, then issues a receipt for the money passing. That effects the passing of title and enables the relevant authority to register or license the boat in the new owner's name.

In my jurisdiction the new owner now becomes liable for any taxes payable on the transaction and it is his duty to "self-report"

If the buyer chooses NOT to lift a subject because, in the given example, Peek and Poke finds that the keel bolts are not in sound condition, the Offer "fails" and becomes null and void. The Seller (or his Agent as the case may be) must then return the deposit to the "offeror". Until the Offer transmutes to a Contract there is NO buyer - only an offeror.

Be careful always to include the "which shall form part of the purchase price" clause in the offer. If you refer to the deposit as "earnest money", you entitle the seller to keep it if the offer fails!

Using loose, vernacular language when there is real money at stake is not a good idea :-)

Best, when you are spending real money, to spend an additional few bux on a lawyer ("attorney", I believe, to Americans) to ensure that your language doesn't let you down!

TrentePieds

[C420sailor]

The number of wealthy, tone deaf people on this forum is too damn high.

“Just [cut a check for tens of thousands of dollars], move on, go sailing.”

Must be nice.

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Originally Posted by TrentePieds

Be careful always to include the "which shall form part of the purchase price" clause in the offer. If you refer to the deposit as "earnest money", you entitle the seller to keep it if the offer fails!

Using loose, vernacular language when there is real money at stake is not a good idea :-)

Best, when you are spending real money, to spend an additional few bux on a lawyer ("attorney", I believe, to Americans) to ensure that your language doesn't let you down!

TrentePieds

What if the seller doesn't want "which shall form part of the purchase price"

[JPA Cate]

^^^^^

Then the seller would lose the buyer.

Ann

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Originally Posted by JPA Cate

^^^^^

Then the seller would lose the buyer.

Ann

maybe one Potential buyer
.Ps
When you selling a boat, house, car you need only 1 real buyer.
For that reason when I selling my boat if a potential buyer is locally i wait a bunch of people and showboat Sunday all together 1/2 hour and go home.
if a potential buyer coming from 500-5000 km couple hour survey, sit pay drink, talk maybe short sail try.

[Jim Cate]

Originally Posted by more

What if the seller doesn't want "which shall form part of the purchase price"

Well, I dunno about your case, but I would take my money elsewhere. I still view the buyer as the one driving the situation, not the seller.

Jim

[Kalinka1]

I wouldn't consider buying a boat unless I had crawled through it and had my wife crawl through it separately. Then I might hire a surveyor and if he/she didn't find what I found or found what I didn't find then I wouldn't pay as he/she didn't do their job.

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Originally Posted by Jim Cate

Well, I dunno about your case, but I would take my money elsewhere. I still view the buyer as the one driving the situation, not the seller.

Jim

your rights, also i have rights don't accept your money and go on a cruise

[boatpoker]

Originally Posted by more

your rights, also i have rights don't accept your money and go on a cruise

Sigh !

[Jim Cate]

Originally Posted by more

your rights, also i have rights don't accept your money and go on a cruise

Yep, the seller has that "right", but by exercising that "right" he fails in his effort to sell t he boat, w hich is likely to have been his goal when putting it up for sale. How is that to his advantage?

The buyer, the guy with the money, controls the interaction: only he can consummate the deal, but either party can interdict it.

Jim

[TrentePieds]

More:

You say: "What if the seller doesn't want "which shall form part of the purchase price"

In this part of the world, the offeree (the one to whom the offer is made by the offeror who makes the deposit as a sign of good faith) is perfectly at liberty to refuse to accept the offer as made. If he does so, he must "forthwith" return the deposit to the offeror. Failure to do so is, effectively, theft, and will be treated as such by the courts.

If the offeree returns the deposit as required, the slate has effectively been wiped clean, and the game can begin again. The offeror can make a new offer on different terms if he likes, and such a new offer moves through the same steps as the first one.

The party who WAS the offeree is, at this point, free to make an offer to the other part to sell on terms (conditions) set by him. If he does so, he is now the offeror and the original offeror becomes the offeree. The offer to sell moves through the same steps as the offer to buy. They are entirely separate legal transactions and are treated in strict isolation from each other.

Note that there is still neither "buyer" nor "seller" (or more formally, "purchaser" and "vendor"). Those terms only become germane when an offer has been accepted and all "subjects lifted", i.e. when all conditions stipulated in the offer have been met.

It seems likely to me. though I have never lived and worked there, that in Croatia, which I believe is your nation of residence, the law may well be some variety of French law. The Law of Contract under French Law is, AFAIK, different from the Law of Contract under British Law and its variants.

So if you wish to spend real money in Croatia I suggest you do it with a Croatian lawyer holding your hand :-)!

TP

[MicHughV]

name me where, what college, what university, what school, what educational qualities, what experience requirement, what apprenticeship course, what accreditation, etc, a boat surveyor requires to hang up his shingle..... ?????