Surveyor was drunk during survey - What do I do?

[Carl-T705]

Originally Posted by ixnax

So you went all the way to the Caribbean and had just over an hour to look at your new purchase? You have experience in the marine trades and yet you come to the internet for advice on your survey and legal options?

Sounds to me like you went on the cheap and got what you paid for with both the survey and the boat. I find it no surprise that your "surveyor" is willing to kick back a thousand bucks to end this.

My sentiments as well, The buyer traveled a few thousand miles and dedicated an entire hour to smoke over a several thousand dollar purchase. When buying boats, cars, homes or planes, new or used it's best to assume it's all crap and make notes of the good qualities, that way the list is always short. A survey.... isn't that one persons opinion of what they are viewing? If the survey on the rudder stated 3mm of free play and you found it to be 90mm you may have grounds to dispute what was found by the survey, if it only states freeplay acceptable you don't have much to go on. Why did you only check the battery box after purchase and not during your 60 minute survey?? I would be shocked if you could find an attorney to even write a letter disputing the survey for less than $5000 and they would want $10,000 to begin to litigate this case.... I'm not a lawyer, but I have tried to hire a few. At least you didn't mention the survey company name, he may have a bigger case against you for slander. Good Luck

[MH Alb24]

If there is an Agreement for services, read it. in all likelihood, it has certain clauses to the effect of "best professional judgment" as well as no liability for items visible and latent. Making an E&O insurance claim is going to be met with months of stonewalling, and likely no payout. OR going after him through legal channels for amounts in excess of his fees will be extraordinarily costly in legal fees. $5K would be cheap. Double that, and you might have a 50-50 chance of recovering a few thousand. And months maybe years of stress during the process.

If you have ever been involved in a lawsuit, even when you know you're in the right, you would know what I mean. Read your engagement agreement, and make your own decision... but for peace of mind, nothing beats getting it behind you.

[dbraymer]

So without a bunch of ole time stories. I owned a WOODEN SCHOONER that occasionally needed a survey. A friend of a friend of a friend once did a survey on the cheap and didn't know which wood types were used for which vessel components. He might not have even noticed that the vessel was made out of wood!

You are lucky, you are smart and observant enough to find the bad/worn out/unsafe parts.

I would not hold my breath waiting for money from the insurance company that underwrites the surveyor. However, it might be worth your trouble to file a lawsuit against the surveyor claiming at least ten times the survey invoice. Then keep track of the repair costs, and amend the suit UPWARD a couple of times.

Insurance companies work by WAITING OUT any situation. If you file a suit, and keep upping the anti, they might start worrying and maybe give you 1/2 of your repair costs. After all, you bought an old boat, and where ever you fixed it, it was like new!

[Mondonico]

Indemnification is different than a release of claims. You definitely should not sign an indemnification agreement, which means you will defend him from all claims arising out of the transaction. A release in exchange for a refund would be more reasonable and expected. As far as whether it's worth pursuing the surveyor, look for the boilerplate language (which they often include) which says there's no guarantees and limits his liability. You'll have to show his work was below the standard of care in the industry. As an attorney I would suggest you really weigh the cost of pursuing versus striking this up to just a bad event in your life and moving on. Yes, you may be successful in pursuing a claim with his insurance carrier but they don't like to give money away.

[jalmberg]

If there are good surveyors out there, I’ve never met one. A real inspection requires many days and possibly some destructive testing. If I ever buy another boat I will do it myself, hiring specialists like a mechanic or rigger when/if necessary. Definitely a case of, if you want it done right, do it yourself. Then if it looks good, hire the window-dressing surveyor for the insurance company lawyers.

[surf_km55]

Originally Posted by JArcherM

"..... But it is an investment..."

I was indoctrinated to believe the exact opposite. Thus far, reality has revealed no contradiction to that belief. If it allows you to sleep better, just ignore my comment.

Good luck!

edit: typo

[surf_km55]

Originally Posted by jalmberg

If there are good surveyors out there, I’ve never met one. A real inspection requires many days and possibly some destructive testing. If I ever buy another boat I will do it myself, hiring specialists like a mechanic or rigger when/if necessary. Definitely a case of, if you want it done right, do it yourself. Then if it looks good, hire the window-dressing surveyor for the insurance company lawyers.

My survey experience was negative, so your words are telling. He missed a cracked portlight that leaks like a sieve. I missed it too. Upon finding it, it was literally like a pimple on the tip of your nose. How could something so obvious not be found? Tsk, tsk.

The best part was the glassed over bow thruster cap that was an actual selling point...that cracked during a rough passage, and cost two haulouts to get resolved properly. I dive the boat after every rough sail now. Selling point, indeed. <sigh>

Caveat emptor.

[Bill_Giles]

Do not be so hung up on a well done mast slice. My own boat has a join about four feet above the deck which concerned my until I found that all in her class are the same. More worrying is the general inadequacy of a range of other inspection items. Get a second opinion and estimates of the cost of repairs then sue his ass off.

[Sailor_Jeff]

Please forgive me if I just don't understand, but this is a 50 ish year old boat? If so, would expect these things to be wrong with a boat nearing its end of life. Perhaps you should only consider new boats?

Again, maybe I just don't understand. Look carefully at the survey, he did not put a catch all statement like "...expected wear and tear fir a boat of this age.." or something like that?

[BlueH2Obound]

Originally Posted by Mark Johnson

If you sell the boat, you are required to point these issues out, now that you know about them. (Catch 22)
Best of luck,
Mark

Mark, I think you are getting mixed up with selling houses in the United States. As far as I know there is absolutely nothing in US law that requires a BOAT OWNER to disclose any flaws in a boat he/she is selling. It sucks, but that's as I understand it. If I am mistaken, please post the requisite law here as I'd really like to know!

[Rjstutch]

Originally Posted by JArcherM

I have a file of contract and paperwork from the surveyor. I contacted several suveyors. Many of them had no credentials when i checked them out further.... This guy did. I have a two surveys from him on the same boat, . I think it was hit on the head there was collusion. I paid for a rigging survey too. So why would I be trying to get off cheap on the hull survey? He offered to do the survey for cheaper because he had previously surveyed the boat the prior season. I said fine, but wanted a list of items checked. He agreed. He botched it. If i could have found someone in the area more qualified i would have, i should have flown someone in.

Unfortunately you had to repeat this for those commenting who had not read the entire thread, and all your comments! It is so frustrating as a reader, let alone how much more it would be as the original poster of the thread, having to repeat information for the benefit of those not bothering to read it all.

[C420sailor]

Originally Posted by BlueH2Obound

Mark, I think you are getting mixed up with selling houses in the United States. As far as I know there is absolutely nothing in US law that requires a BOAT OWNER to disclose any flaws in a boat he/she is selling. It sucks, but that's as I understand it. If I am mistaken, please post the requisite law here as I'd really like to know!

I believe you’re correct.

That said, it behooves oneself to be honest. You never know who you are selling to. I know of one acquaintance who thought he would try to sell a boat to an unsuspecting customer on Craigslist, and he lied about the condition. There was a pretty serious issue with the boat that was covered up, wasn’t caught by survey, and he wanted it off his hands before the cover-up repair failed. Lied, sold the boat for good money.

Apparently, the repair quickly failed, and the new owner did some digging. Figured out the guy covered it up, lipsticked the pig.

Long story short, the new owner was apparently an influential player in the local ‘underworld’ for lack of a better term. Seller ended up getting the absolute **** beaten out of him one night by a couple dudes...I mean badly badly beaten. Everyone in town knew who was likely behind it, including the cops, but they couldn’t (or didn’t want to) prove it. Or so the rumor goes, anyway.

Moral? The guy you’re ****ing may be one of those people you just don’t **** with. There are lots of crazies in this world. You may be legally in the green, but some people don’t play by the rules.

[tkalfaoglu]

Very sorry to hear of your troubles!


AFAIK, the surveyors have no responsibility towards the accuracy of their reports. The best we can do is to create a blacklist of such companies and surveyors, so others do not get burned by the same people..

[boatpoker]

Originally Posted by JArcherM

Yup. Very well known in the islands. After looking his name up on CF m not the first. Wish I knew I could have just punched in his name to cd search. Lol. Wow.

I understand your reluctance to name the surveyor but a would like to see a list of his "credentials".

[CaptBobR]

Read your survey contract. It likely allows for simple refund of your money only.v E and O may or may not cover the damage. For example if the survey was done according to ABYC E11 Electrical Standards or if the survey was done simply from the prospective of electrical fire likelihood
Also you might consider a formal complaint to the surveyor’s accreditation agency