Two Questions: One Regading the Deposit, One on who Owns Survey Report

[leftbrainstuff]

Deposit in an escrow is good advice.

Survey is the property of whoever pays for it. If the owner wants it then i'd expect him to pay half.

Sent from my GT-I9300 using Cruisers Sailing Forum mobile app

[BandB]

Originally Posted by leftbrainstuff

Deposit in an escrow is good advice.

Survey is the property of whoever pays for it. If the owner wants it then i'd expect him to pay half.

Sent from my GT-I9300 using Cruisers Sailing Forum mobile app

Actually if the contract specifies he send a copy, that superceeds. Now, there is no way he should make that deposit or sign that contract.

But normal is out the window when there's a signed contract.

There are many documentation services that do business in Panama but aren't located there. Just google Panama Yacht Documentation. You will get Panama attorney's and plenty of documentation services.

Please find some legal representation that can work on your behalf and advise you. I may have missed but are you from Panama or elsewhere?

[JayCall]

As an attorney (note this is not legal advice though) you should run, not walk, from that contract. Your first document is an "Offer to Purchase" not a Sales Contract. The "standard" Offer is conditional on survey and sea trial to the buyer's satisfaction. Buyer normally pays for haulout and survey and owns the survey. No requirement to share it with the seller. The Offer usually defines disposition of funds, either to seller if the sale goes through or returned to purchaser if not. All funds are deposited with an escrow agent, no funds change hands until all final transfer documents are signed, sealed and delivered and then the escrow agent makes disbursements. If the seller is not willing to do a standard deal, walk away, fast!

[BandB]

Originally Posted by JayCall

If the seller is not willing to do a standard deal, walk away, fast!

I'd go one further. The seller has already shown you their true nature in trying to get you to agree to something like that. I'd run away with no more discussion. When you find out something like that about someone, trusting them the rest of the way is just something I wouldn't recommend. You never win dealing with people like that. There are too many boats ultimately to choose from to go through that.

You might ask with an attorney and standard deal how could you lose now? Well, spend the money for the survey to find out there are many issues is one way. Find out after the survey that there is a lien on the boat or title isn't clear. Find problems on survey and seller won't budge. Odds are just so strong that things will not work out with someone like that who started by trying to take advantage of you and get you to agree to something like he did.

That's just me. I choose not to deal with people I don't trust and I don't trust your seller now.

[ty.gregory]

You all are helping me out more than you know, and I truly appreciate it.

Ty

[BandB]

Originally Posted by ty.gregory

You all are helping me out more than you know, and I truly appreciate it.

Ty

The fact you aren't a citizen just adds to the necessity of having someone local representing you.

[JPA Cate]

ty.gregoryl,

I know you don't know me from a piece of chalk, but I surely do concur with all the good advice you've been given here.

The legal stuff above, even with the disclaimer is exactly right on!

And so is the 'feely' stuff. Do not EVER deal with someone your gut tells you to walk away from because you've caught him/her/them in something dishonest. EVER!

Ann

[carstenb]

I can only concur with what has been said. Normal procedure is that the buyer pays for the haul out and for the surveyor. The survey results are the buyers to keep or do with what he wants.

Any "ernest money" is paid into an escrow account, to be returned to the buyer if the deal goes south.

You should also make sure that any "offer to buy" or "sales contract" allows you to walk away from the deal whenever you want, without having to give a reason. meaning, until you fork over the money, you can just walk away, even if you've gotten a great survey report.

[letsgetsailing3]

I don't have any experience in foreign sales, but I would think that a U.S. documentation company would work, as it's U.S. flagged already.

[letsgetsailing3]

Originally Posted by carstenb

You should also make sure that any "offer to buy" or "sales contract" allows you to walk away from the deal whenever you want, without having to give a reason. meaning, until you fork over the money, you can just walk away, even if you've gotten a great survey report.

This is important. You should be able to walk away for any reason.

That's why you should use your own form for the offer, not the seller's standard contract. They can ask for what they want, but I'd only offer a 10% deposit, placed in escrow.

You get the survey, since you're paying for it. You can give them a copy if you want, but it's not required.

[denverd0n]

Originally Posted by ty.gregory

I am starting to have my doubts on this...

You should be past "doubts." When the seller wants you to deposit the money into his account, rather than a third-party escrow account, it is no-doubt time!

[BandB]

You've got to know when to hold 'em
Know when to fold 'em
Know when to walk away
Know when to run

[letsgetsailing3]

Originally Posted by denverd0n

You should be past "doubts." When the seller wants you to deposit the money into his account, rather than a third-party escrow account, it is no-doubt time!

If every deal was scuttled on account of shady brokers, a lot fewer boats would change hands.

If the OP likes the boat, he just needs to keep his eyes open.

[BandB]

Originally Posted by letsgetsailing3

If every deal was scuttled on account of shady brokers, a lot fewer boats would change hands.

If the OP likes the boat, he just needs to keep his eyes open.

I wasn't under the impression there was a broker involved. So shady owner. That to me is more serious when you're dealing directly with the owner. On the other hand if people walked away when brokers started with shady actions there might be less heartbreak and it might reduce the number of shady brokers. Most are not.

I stand behind the chorus from the Gambler. When things aren't right, you're finding yourself really uncomfortable with the seller, time to part company. People are not selectively shady or selectively dishonest. They either are or aren't. And for everything five things or so you catch and deal with, there will be one that slips by.

Now to each his own level of risk. Just personally I would be very leary of dealing with this seller.

[letsgetsailing3]

Originally Posted by BandB

I wasn't under the impression there was a broker involved. So shady owner. That to me is more serious when you're dealing directly with the owner. On the other hand if people walked away when brokers started with shady actions there might be less heartbreak and it might reduce the number of shady brokers. Most are not.

I stand behind the chorus from the Gambler. When things aren't right, you're finding yourself really uncomfortable with the seller, time to part company. People are not selectively shady or selectively dishonest. They either are or aren't. And for everything five things or so you catch and deal with, there will be one that slips by.

Now to each his own level of risk. Just personally I would be very leary of dealing with this seller.

I didn't notice that it was the seller. Good point. If he's willing to mislead you regarding the norms of boat transactions, what ELSE is he misleading you on?

The seller clearly isn't going into this in the vein of helping the buyer through the transaction.