Are YouTubers wrecking it for the rest of us?

[Macblaze]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

This is incredibly annoying. I only heard about such things a little while ago. Seriously ... who are these idiots who think just b/c they have a bunch of virtual friends, that they somehow deserve a free lunch. What's the world coming to .

Kudos for you for getting out when you did. If you were still "working" for a living you wouldn't be able to avoid "Influencers." They are becoming endemic to any marketing or communications plan. It's not that they aren't a good tool for eh toolkit, but as it is relatively easy to declare oneself an influencer the field is populated by wannabees and idiots.

Which is partially the problem stated by the OP. There are some darn good travelogues, lifestyle and how-tos on Youtube. And there are a lot of ill-educated people with cameras and bad microphones declaring themselves part of the industry. One of the few good things about Google's algorithms is that thankfully these guys are hard to find. I seem to run across them a lot because my searches are so specific: PNW, BC, liveaboard etc.

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by Macblaze

Kudos for you for getting out when you did. If you were still "working" for a living you wouldn't be able to avoid "Influencers." They are becoming endemic to any marketing or communications plan. It's not that they aren't a good tool for eh toolkit, but as it is relatively easy to declare oneself an influencer the field is populated by wannabees and idiots.

Yeah, I'm glad I got out when I did. Some of my so-called professional life was spent doing PR, although thankfully I only worked for organizations that didn't need faux-"influencers."

It's not so much that someone might become an expert in a certain field, and therefor act as an "influencer". It's the attitude that therefore this person should get stuff for free. As a journalist and writer I might have been considered an "influencer" in certain areas, but back in my day we would take pains NOT to accept freebies. This was part of maintaining credibility.

[jimbunyard]

In my experience, tipping has no, or almost no, bearing on the quality of service. Discussions with service industry people generally reflect the same.
After all, 20% of 30 is only 6.00. (tongue firmly in cheek)

https://time.com/5404475/history-tip...nts-civil-war/

[Hardhead]

Originally Posted by cyan

More on-topic, this particular wait staff often jokes about the selfies and the food pictures. At least once a week, a YouTube or Instagram "influencer" rolls in and declares that they should receive discounted or free food because of a large subscriber count. It always seems to result in an annoying scene for the other patrons with staging of pictures and annoying live streaming and recording. I'm sure some customers are asking themselves: Are YouTubers wrecking it for the rest of us?

That would get annoying fast. I'd imagine part of the reasoning, on behalf of the business owner, is that if the business doesn't cater to them, there's the backhanded risk of unflattering coverage. That's a real "influencer" prima donna thing to do - but yet it's heard about quite often it seems.

[cyan]

Originally Posted by daletournier

Hi Cyan, you mentioned ozzie wait staff make approx $17 usd/hr, well that's approx $25aud not including tips and even though it's not part the Australian culture there still are tips, this dosent include penalty rates like time and half on Sundays, Saturday afternoons and public holidays. Remember Australians spend Australian dollars and the exchange rate changes ,in 2011 that $25 aud was $27 usd!

That's a fair point. It simply feels a bit patronizing to completely rule out tipping in restaurants for the good of the workers, when such workers that I know would NOT want that- even with higher fixed wages.

[cyan]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

Go talk to your hypothetical servers. Ask them what they would rather see: a guaranteed salary of $25/hr, or an uncertain $25/hr based on the kindness of strangers..

I already asked 5 of them about $17. The hypothetical short one with the funky haircut who will greet you at the door laughed at the concept. Not gonna keep at it, or she will think I'm colluding with the owner to lower her pay. My point was that not every study reflects every situation. The incentive is money for this bunch, and the money varies. They like that. Let me know when you're in town, and I'll get you a family discount.(no vegan stuff) That should cover the tip.

[Hardhead]

In a way, the whole 20% tipping concept has become so expected - I'd almost feel like I practically slapped a server in the face, if I tipped less than that. Even with the typical bland, crank em' in, crank em' out, service I seem to mainly get. I'd be interested to know what the actual tip percentages are like for most servers. I'm not begrudging them 20% tips, at all, but it's gotten so expected I'm not sure there's much causal relationship with tips.

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by Hardhead

In a way, the whole 20% tipping concept has become so expected - I'd almost feel like I practically slapped a server in the face, if I tipped less than that. Even with the typical bland, crank em' in, crank em' out, service I seem to mainly get. I'd be interested to know what the actual tip percentages are like for most servers. I'm not begrudging them 20% tips, at all, but it's gotten so expected I'm not sure there's much causal relationship with tips.

Exactly. It's no longer a tip. It's part of their wages.

A tip used to be something given for service that goes well beyond the expectation. A waiter/waitress who takes your order, brings your food and is attentive to your needs during your meal is not someone providing exceptional service. It's their job.

Originally Posted by cyan

I already asked 5 of them about $17. The hypothetical short one with the funky haircut who will greet you at the door laughed at the concept. Not gonna keep at it, or she will think I'm colluding with the owner to lower her pay. My point was that not every study reflects every situation. The incentive is money for this bunch, and the money varies. They like that. Let me know when you're in town, and I'll get you a family discount.(no vegan stuff) That should cover the tip.

Completely agree. No broad study reflects the reality of every individual. But if we're talking about public policy choices, it's one way to make rational decisions. Of course, all too often our law makers don't make rational decisions. But that's a different discussion.

Love to raise a pint, and share a meal Cyan. No worries about vegan. I'm an equal-opportunity eater. I'll happily eat dead animals just as well as dead plants .

[Pelagic]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

...... For example, try supporting a family on $11/hr, and then tell me why all people don't deserve to make a living wage.

Devils advocate here again Mike [emoji4]

What's quoted starts with the premise that "All people deserve to live"
...which does not consider the various regional positions on capital punishment for heinous crimes.

But back to 'Being a Waiter and are Tips an incentive'?.
Your research was admittedly about higher level employees.... which assumes a greater level of ambition and what incentives to use on them.....

Generally speaking, waiters are often an entry level job for young people and most dont take the job very seriously.
Many of us have worked in resteraunts during school years and I remember how awfully bad I was.... (Manager said " I spent half my time ****ing the dog and the other half deciding what to do with the puppies" (I remember I was bedding his twin daughters at the time and thought this quite ironic) [emoji33]

My point.... Incentives are an individual thing and $11/hr is a wonderful wage here in the Philippines where the rate is about $1.37/hr. to feed a family.

Now, while that provides great incentive to seek work overseas it also outlines that those with no ambition will always be fodder for socialist dreams.

When making a small wage, tips are an incentive

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by Pelagic

Devils advocate here again Mike [emoji4]

What's quoted starts with the premise that "All people deserve to live"
...which does not consider the various regional positions on capital punishment for heinous crimes.

Yup, you got me. I do believe living people have a right to life. Guilty as charged (especially when there is plenty to go around).

Originally Posted by Pelagic

But back to 'Being a Waiter and are Tips an incentive'?.
Your research was admittedly about higher level employees.... which assumes a greater level of ambition and what incentives to use on them.....

To be clear, I referenced two different sets of research findings.

#1. This looked specifically at the restaurant industry, and found a very weak causal relationship between tips and quality of service. The conclusion is that tipping does not improve service in this industry. I would be cautious in extrapolating to other low-wage service sectors, but it is suggestive.

#2. There is consistent and strong research, ranging from the pure economic side, to pure psychology, and every discipline in between, that financial incentives are a poor motivator when it comes to more professional-level workers. It's on the list of motivators, but always scores quite a ways down the list.

Originally Posted by Pelagic

Generally speaking, waiters are often an entry level job for young people and most dont take the job very seriously.
Many of us have worked in resteraunts during school years and I remember how awfully bad I was.... (Manager said " I spent half my time ****ing the dog and the other half deciding what to do with the puppies" (I remember I was bedding his twin daughters at the time and thought this quite ironic) [emoji33]

Yes, I too did my stint in a restaurant. I recall similar discussions with the manager -- which explains why my restaurant career was so short-lived .

Waiter/waitress has been a so-called "entry-level" job in North America for generations now. But my understanding is that this is not universally the case. Apparently in some European countries it is a well respected, and well paid, profession. Be that as it may, just b/c it is "entry-level" does not mean we should pay people less than a living wage.

Originally Posted by Pelagic

My point.... Incentives are an individual thing and $11/hr is a wonderful wage here in the Philippines where the rate is about $1.37/hr. to feed a family.

I hope it was clear I was referencing $11/hr in the context of America. Poverty is largely a relative concept. What is poor in the USA or Canada can be rich in other parts of the world. This is why so many westerners retire to lesser-developed countries; it allows us to live like kings.

I have no idea what a living wage is in the Philippines. If it is a $1.37, then great (and again explains why it tops the list of cheap places for Westerners to retire to).

Originally Posted by Pelagic

When making a small wage, tips are an incentive

I would say where people are making less than living wages, then yes I agree, tips are an incentive. Any way to get more money is probably an incentive. So yes,I believe this to be true (and I said so earlier). Although, I should stress this is only my personal belief. I have no research to back this up. Maybe someone can dig some up.

[valhalla360]

Originally Posted by atoll

here is an idea!
how about putting all politicians on minumum wage,then at the end of the tax year when you pay your taxes,you can add a tip for good service.......

Maybe not "minimum wage" but that's how it works now.

Look at the Obamas...they entered the presidency with a net worth of less than 1/2 million...8yrs later, they just bought a $15million mansion and are no where close to depleting their cash reserves.

And before someone jumps on it as political, politicians on all sides are guilty of this.

[valhalla360]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

But since according to you these people are already getting paid $25/hr, I assume you'd have no objection to paying these people this amount, and simply cutting out the tips. Go talk to your hypothetical servers. Ask them what they would rather see: a guaranteed salary of $25/hr, or an uncertain $25/hr based on the kindness of strangers.

The flaw in this analysis is:
- A business owner is going to do an assessment of wages compared to what applicants are willing to work for and probably going to offer somewhere between minimum wage and $15/hr. It's worth his time to do this and if he comes across as mean...it's a big enough savings to the business that he can live with it.
- Dinners just know they will be vilified if they don't hand over 20% and it's only $6 on a $30 tab which doesn't seem like a lot. It's just not worth their trouble to be the lone hold out against the system.

The wait staff on the other hand, know they are handling 4 tables each per hour at $6 per table plus the $2.35/hr base wage...if you ask them the REAL question, they fight for the tipping system because it may be uncertain from night to night but long term average it's drastically higher wages.

Also, as previously mentioned, they can hide a significant percentage from the tax man and with marginal tax rates, that can translate into 15-20% (state & federal income tax) extra on $15-20k per year if they are good at hiding it. If they get a fixed $25/hr, it all shows up on the tax returns.

[Pelagic]

Originally Posted by valhalla360

- A business owner is going to do an assessment of wages compared to what applicants are willing to work for and probably going to offer somewhere between minimum wage and $15/hr. It's worth his time to do this and if he comes across as mean...it's a big enough savings to the business that he can live with it.

Had dinner tonight with a successful Australian Hotel and Resteraunt owner and we were discussing the high wages there. $25-$27/hr

He says that this is one of the main reasons for the high failure rate of new resteraunts trying to develop.an established clientele .....They bleed money too quickly.

When Mike talks about a decent living wage, what is fair?

Is it fair for one guy to invest his life savings into a new venture, take all the risk and be criticised for cutting down his overheads as much as possible to try and survive the initial 2-3 year startup losses?

How many waiters would agree to work for a salary based on sales rather than a fixed hourly rate?

Like most things, there are two sides to consider and the waiters have the easy part.

[daletournier]

Hi Pelagic, hes right! but it's not just restraunts, Australian wages are high as is rent, overheads have soared in the last 10 years, living expenses are way up ,this is why I laugh at the less than 2% inflation thing.

Its hard to get a balance, of course decent employers wanted the best for their employees BUT the employer also wants to be compensated for the risk and stress he carries.

Let's take weekends, I owned a couple of fitness centers, you need to be able to provide a service even when sometimes it's not profitable to do so like opening on weekends but the wages were killing us, time and half and double time. It was completely non viable to have a kid stand behind reception being paid $40-50/ hr!

This is where finding the balance is hard. In the end like many businesses we automated, wages get cut dramatically, operating hours go to 24/7, customers are happy and I make more money. One swipe of a card at 2am tbe gym comes alive , everything turns on , sensors monitor all movement and I can watch any part of the building on my smart phone while sitting on my boat in the Philippines (which I was when we first went that route).

Is this right? dont know ,but if the business went down due to unsustainable overheads then know one haf a job.

Australia is very different from the US.

[Macblaze]

Originally Posted by Pelagic

Had dinner tonight with a successful Australian Hotel and Resteraunt owner and we were discussing the high wages there. $25-$27/hr

He says that this is one of the main reasons for the high failure rate of new resteraunts trying to develop.an established clientele .....They bleed money too quickly.

When Mike talks about a decent living wage, what is fair?

Is it fair for one guy to invest his life savings into a new venture, take all the risk and be criticised for cutting down his overheads as much as possible to try and survive the initial 2-3 year startup losses?

How many waiters would agree to work for a salary based on sales rather than a fixed hourly rate?

Like most things, there are two sides to consider and the waiters have the easy part.

That doesn't explain the equally high failure rate of restaurants in Canada and the US. Being a restauranteur is risky. One could say hiring crap staff for low wages just makes it riskier. Hell, just to bring it back on topic, Social media seems to be a great indicator of a venture's success—at least in the first year or so. If I don't see it on instagram or twitter then it it isn't ""hot" enough to give a try