Baltimore to New London

[Notyetsinking]

Originally Posted by redneckrob

Aside from those being two of my least favorite cities in the U.S....

Depending on your draft, air and water, there actually are several places you can pull in between Norfolk and Cape May. Ocean City is open to you no matter what and in pretty much any weather. Chincoteague pretty close behind although if you don't have visibility I wouldn't try it because you have to navigate the buoys and ignore your chart. If your water draft is shallow enough Wachapreague is also available to you and if you're below 45' you have the Indian River Inlet.

That said, I agree with the other posters to do the Delaware. I wouldn't pick the Delmarva coast as my first offshore leg with a new boat and new crew. You'll survive fine, but why subject yourself to the stress of what is probably the most isolated section of coastline on the east coast?

I see you posted addendums to this post later on. Anyway, draft is 7'10 and I believe with wind-vane air draft is about 75 ft. I am surprised to see Ocean City here as a viable inlet, I've mostly seen that as a pretty messy inlet without local knowledge. Part of my issue with the Delaware and C&D I think comes from a pretty messy history with Marine Diesels; growing up on a C&C 40 with a Westerbeake 40, reliability was not exactly a given. I now have a Yanmar 3gm30f, and I have not had a single issue with it yet. However, the outside providing a realistic sailing backup is a comfort the C&D doesn't offer.

[zstine]

I've done this trip a few times on my Tartan 41, draft 7.5ft and always took the C&D, though I have also gone outside from Norfolk. You can (should) watch the weather and decide if the wind is favorable for sailing down the Delaware bay vs the Chesapeake. The DE Bay is very much like the chessy, so your crew can get comfortable. I've had good luck and usually can sail. Going down the chessy adds at least a full day if not 2.



Ocean City has plenty of water for you. We've been in there 2 times and it is a nice stop. Anchoring behind Assateague island will be tight, as in you will be close to the channel, but doable.



Altantic city is an alternate stop to cape may if the timing works better to make more miles.

Some things to consider offshore... Fog is common this time of year with cold water. Without radar, it is no fun.


7 knt is pretty fast for an average. Ocean waves slows your motoring speed. We will generally sail if we can make 4knts or more.


Outside L.I. is a good idea if you plan to sail overnight. There's not much to hit and boats are easy to see. Inside has more light pollution making boats harder to see, but you could stop overnight if you have the time.

[Notyetsinking]

Originally Posted by zstine

I've done this trip a few times on my Tartan 41, draft 7.5ft and always took the C&D, though I have also gone outside from Norfolk. You can (should) watch the weather and decide if the wind is favorable for sailing down the Delaware bay vs the Chesapeake. The DE Bay is very much like the chessy, so your crew can get comfortable. I've had good luck and usually can sail. Going down the chessy adds at least a full day if not 2.



Ocean City has plenty of water for you. We've been in there 2 times and it is a nice stop. Anchoring behind Assateague island will be tight, as in you will be close to the channel, but doable.



Altantic city is an alternate stop to cape may if the timing works better to make more miles.

Some things to consider offshore... Fog is common this time of year with cold water. Without radar, it is no fun.


7 knt is pretty fast for an average. Ocean waves slows your motoring speed. We will generally sail if we can make 4knts or more.


Outside L.I. is a good idea if you plan to sail overnight. There's not much to hit and boats are easy to see. Inside has more light pollution making boats harder to see, but you could stop overnight if you have the time.

Awesome thanks for your insights! There is certainly a large time savings going through the Delaware Bay, so I think going that way makes much more sense unless the weather is drastically favoring the Chesapeake route. I know Ocean City has the water, but from what I have read is of a channel that moves somewhat frequently, and that is something I would prefer not to deal with. Fog is something I hadn't really considered, but will certainly keep an eye out for.

I understand 7knts may seem high, but the boat is really more of a race boat than a 'racer cruiser'. Sailing to wind with 5knts we do ~6 knots. I remember one of my first sails on the boat with a 'crew' of people who had never sailed before, we were doing 9-10knts broad reaching in 20 knts of wind with only the number 3 jib. I have a 6ft sprit for A-sails, so with forecast southerly winds I think we could really do quite a bit better than the average I came up with. I've looked at comparable boats from the Annapolis to Newport race (we have a phrf of 6), and taken 1knt off their average speed to come up with that 7knt number.

My plan is to stop at Sandy Hook for a night, though it seems to be pretty un-common to go outside if you stop there. Is there any reason for that besides the distance? Sandy Hook to New London is roughly 130 miles, so I guess that decision will be rather last minute, depending on the wind and a confidence that we could average 9knts and get there within a day. That last part is obviously crew dependent, but with 4 capable crew, I think we should be able to make pretty good time.

[zstine]

Originally Posted by Notyetsinking

My plan is to stop at Sandy Hook for a night, though it seems to be pretty un-common to go outside if you stop there. Is there any reason for that besides the distance? Sandy Hook to New London is roughly 130 miles, so I guess that decision will be rather last minute, depending on the wind and a confidence that we could average 9knts and get there within a day. That last part is obviously crew dependent, but with 4 capable crew, I think we should be able to make pretty good time.

We live in NJ but kept our boat at Crocker's in New London during the season and wintered it at Lockwoods in NJ. I've done the Sandy hook to New London many times, a few times solo. I mostly did it as a ~20 hour overnight outside. If you are doing a 'delivery', the outside is easier. Not much to see, but you can set the autopliot and relax. I've done inside as well, but that is much more of a 'tourist' route and I would anchor overnight making a 2 day trip. Inside you need to pay attention and hand steer often around NYC. You will also have to time the tides through Hell Gate (east river) which may screw up your timing otherwise.

If you have say a 16hr passage, I recommend leaving before sun up in order to get in before sun down. Leaving in the dark allows you to follow your GPS path out and you've been there, as opposed to arriving in a new place at night.


Oh, Yes the marks to OC inlet move, but they are the ones inside the breakwater. It is smooth and easy sailing at that point, so keeping the red right is not hard at all. Entering the breakwater can have steep waves at mid tide, but nothing your boat can't handle.... It's really not that hard of a place to enter IMO, as long as you are aware of the current, which can run pretty fast.

[Sparx]

Your level of concern reflects well on your good sense in preparation for a first offshore passage. Good on you.
I felt the same preparing my first trip outside the Chesapeake. We quickly learned that we love and prefer offshore sailing. With that perspective here is what I would do....

I am ambivalent regarding C&D canal and Delaware Bay versus going south to find the ocean at Chesapeake Bay Bridge Tunnel. We have done both. The Delaware Bay route is indeed shorter, but exiting the Bay at the southern end more pleasant. With settled summer weather the offshore legs will be very nice.

Baltimore south to the tunnel is a great shake down with plenty of places to stop if there was need or whim. From Baltimore you can ride the tide south most of the way, but I would try to time going over the tunnel with the last part of the falling tide. There will be lots of big ship traffic, but use AIS and VHF to determine what if any will be near you. Note the Delaware River also carries lots of big ship traffic, so same concerns with this route.

Once out in the ocean, either at Cape Charles or Cape May we like to get 5 to 15 miles offshore at night....much less boat traffic. Keep a watch, but relax and watch the miles roll by. Set a course for NY Harbour with the thought of stopping at Atlantic Highlands to rest and coordinate with the tide in the East River. Every cruiser should do the East River route once, it is truly something to behold.

Going around Long Island on the outside is much farther, but if all is well on board this route is a good way to lay down some miles, especially at night. Plum Gut is best coordinated with the tide, same as the East River alternative.

Several good rest or bailout stops have already been suggested for the offshore legs.

Regarding weather forecasts, 24 hours is usually good, and three days is usually close enough for cruising the US East Coast. Offshore go prepared to reef when needed and strongly biased towards a beam reach or downwind weather pattern.

[Notyetsinking]

Originally Posted by zstine

We live in NJ but kept our boat at Crocker's in New London during the season and wintered it at Lockwoods in NJ. I've done the Sandy hook to New London many times, a few times solo. I mostly did it as a ~20 hour overnight outside. If you are doing a 'delivery', the outside is easier. Not much to see, but you can set the autopliot and relax. I've done inside as well, but that is much more of a 'tourist' route and I would anchor overnight making a 2 day trip. Inside you need to pay attention and hand steer often around NYC. You will also have to time the tides through Hell Gate (east river) which may screw up your timing otherwise.

If you have say a 16hr passage, I recommend leaving before sun up in order to get in before sun down. Leaving in the dark allows you to follow your GPS path out and you've been there, as opposed to arriving in a new place at night.


Oh, Yes the marks to OC inlet move, but they are the ones inside the breakwater. It is smooth and easy sailing at that point, so keeping the red right is not hard at all. Entering the breakwater can have steep waves at mid tide, but nothing your boat can't handle.... It's really not that hard of a place to enter IMO, as long as you are aware of the current, which can run pretty fast.

Awesome advice thank you, completely agree with the note on the 16 hr passage. I think in terms of what this trip is to me, going the outside route makes much more sense here, both in timing and the experience it provides at this juncture. The boat is going to be in New London for a while, so I will have plenty of time to explore LI Sound without any level of time crunch.

[Notyetsinking]

Originally Posted by Sparx

Your level of concern reflects well on your good sense in preparation for a first offshore passage. Good on you.
I felt the same preparing my first trip outside the Chesapeake. We quickly learned that we love and prefer offshore sailing. With that perspective here is what I would do....

I am ambivalent regarding C&D canal and Delaware Bay versus going south to find the ocean at Chesapeake Bay Bridge Tunnel. We have done both. The Delaware Bay route is indeed shorter, but exiting the Bay at the southern end more pleasant. With settled summer weather the offshore legs will be very nice.

Baltimore south to the tunnel is a great shake down with plenty of places to stop if there was need or whim. From Baltimore you can ride the tide south most of the way, but I would try to time going over the tunnel with the last part of the falling tide. There will be lots of big ship traffic, but use AIS and VHF to determine what if any will be near you. Note the Delaware River also carries lots of big ship traffic, so same concerns with this route.

Once out in the ocean, either at Cape Charles or Cape May we like to get 5 to 15 miles offshore at night....much less boat traffic. Keep a watch, but relax and watch the miles roll by. Set a course for NY Harbour with the thought of stopping at Atlantic Highlands to rest and coordinate with the tide in the East River. Every cruiser should do the East River route once, it is truly something to behold.

Going around Long Island on the outside is much farther, but if all is well on board this route is a good way to lay down some miles, especially at night. Plum Gut is best coordinated with the tide, same as the East River alternative.

Several good rest or bailout stops have already been suggested for the offshore legs.

Regarding weather forecasts, 24 hours is usually good, and three days is usually close enough for cruising the US East Coast. Offshore go prepared to reef when needed and strongly biased towards a beam reach or downwind weather pattern.

Thank you! Part of me wants to just avoid it but I know my sailing skills cannot advance without something like this. I am certainly feeling a bit overwhelmed with the preparation, but I am fortunate in this situation. As much as any boat can, I think I bought the boat fully prepared for something like this. The boat was surveyed, and has done the Newport Bermuda and Annapolis New port races in 2016 and 2017. I have used those race requirements as an equipment checklist. I will not be doing any 'true' offshore sailing on this trip, I am nervous enough sailing the Ocean let alone being outside the sight of land. I understand others with more experience here will say offshore would be easier, but until I have the comfort of trusting myself and the boat on this type of sail, being within easy reach of assistance is an invaluable comfort.

I see you mention the accuracy of weather forecasts within a 24hr time period, however a couple recent storms have recently thrown that into question for me. Yesterday, I saw a thunderstorm warning issued for cape may at 7:03pm for 7:45pm-12am. And I recall last week what appeared to be another very large un-forecast thunderstorm/squall in Baltimore. I understand these forecasts are as much about path prediction as the existence of the weather itself. Considering that, it seems like any amount of 'weather' picked up by radar should be enough to prevent a hop to the next stop. So my question is, how do you determine a suitable weather window? I've just about memorized the Annapolis book of Seamanship, but my confidence in forecasting has been pretty heavily shaken. Getting caught in something like that on this trip is just about the last thing I want, beat only by losing the engine in the C&D and run over by a cargo ship

[Sparx]

Regarding thunderstorms....

When looking at weather forecasts for multi-day passages I look at CAPE, which I consider useful to identify times with potential for unsettled weather. CAPE values over 1000 get me looking at what is going on in the big picture, potentially causing a shift in my timing. In the past month i have slowed the boat to let potentially bad weather pass in front of us, as well as shifted my departure day for more settled weather. For your trip I would likely try to get on the backside of a low pressure system, which should avoid the situation of being caught by a frontal system.

Second, and maybe most important, I know that ocassional isolated thunderstorms happen. I have seen them pop up unannounced. I steer around isolated thunderstorms when possible. If I see that I am going to get caught in one we reef deeply or drop all. My catamaran rides very pleasantly in very high winds running deep downwind under bare poles or minimum sail. (Work out the storm tactics for your boat) When the storm passes we hoist and get back on course.

[captlloyd]

It seems to me you are putting to much stock and concern in “pop-up thunderstorms” and “squalls “. Many times they just look scary and get you wet. Your concern should be more about predicted storms that take much longer to build. Just get a good weather window and you’ll be fine. If something does start to build you’ll have plenty of notice to duck in someplace and ride it out. Enjoy it, let us know how it went !

[winjamerk]

You've gotten lots of very good advice from those responding to your post. Adding - Been both ways (Inside/Outside) at least 3-4 times.

1. Suggest Avoid NYC waterway from Friday afternoon until dark:30 on Sunday evening unless playing bumper-cars with boats showing off in the East River is something you like. Early mornings are OK, though.

2. You can do Cape May to Montauk Point with 1 overnight however you will be crossing 6 traffic zone lanes in-&-out of NYC. 2 are N/S along Jersey coast: 2 are E/W below south coast of Long Island and; 2 are angled about 45 degrees out. You'll see these in your charts. If you have 4 ppl on board able to sail and conduct watches, weather permitting, could make the trip a straight shot either from the Delaware Bay or Norfolk.
3. You're going to really like the Race, just outside of New London. Imagine sailing at 4 kts into the race and suddenly find yourself sailing backwards or with full sails, or, just become stationary. Don't on this trip, pick a nice day later in the season when you have nowhere to go for a few hours. Whatever you decide, there is so much to see either way. Enjoy.

[Notyetsinking]

Just to update this thread, we successfully made it to New London! Hit some rough weather off Atlantic city and then caught in a quick storm in LI sound, but overall was a great trip. Got the boat up to 17 knots and covered 45 miles in 4 hours at one point which was a blast. Certainly learned a couple things along the way