Great Lakes Cirmcumnavigation

[ramblinrod]

Originally Posted by valhalla360

Suddenly you went from 1/6th of the Great Loop to 1/3rd...and you are just touching some of the lakes not doing a circuit of them.

I ran it on Google Earth and came up with:
- 1000 miles to circuit Lake Superior.
- 700 miles to circuit Lake Michigan
- 350 miles Mackinaw to Toledo
- 300 miles Toledo to Buffalo
- 250 miles Welland Canal to Kingston and then the entrance to the Trent Severn
- Trent Severn 240 miles
- Severn to Mackinaw (via north channel) 300 miles

That totals up to 3140 if I did the math right but lets call it 3500 since I ran mostly straight lines to estimate and you have extra miles in and out of harbors.

This doesn't take into account when the wind is on the nose (which it always seems to be) and the sailor is traveling twice as far to make the same distance.

With your ambitious 114 travel days, that means each day you need to average around 9 hours under way. 3 out of 4 days traveling means you have no choice but to travel if the weather is halfway decent. It's not unusual to get a week of bad weather which puts you way behind schedule.

And don't forget when the weather is decent, there is often no wind, so you are motoring. Add a 1/2 hr to go fill the 5 gal outboard tank each of these days.

Also, you didn't account for the locks. Between the Trent-Severn, Welland and the Soo, there are about 50 locks. That can easily add another 30-50hrs under way time depending on what traffic is like.

No one has said it's impossible, just very impractical.

Now if you get a larger boat that can sail/motor comfortably at 6-7kts, it's a whole different ballgame. Now you only need to average around 4-5hrs on a travel day and if you fall behind you can do some 8-10hr runs to make up for weather/repair days. You can comfortably go out in worse conditions You likely have fuel tanks that only need to be topped up every week or two, etc....

First of all, nobody suggested sailing the entire shoreline of each Great Lake.

Nobody covers the entire shoreline of every continent when they circumnavigate the globe.

It is still a circumnavigation.

I think I have mentioned in here many times, one would miss a lot.

20 miles /day avg. 3 days out of 4 in a Flicka 20 is doable in my opinion.

If you disagree that is fine; you certainly have the right to your opinion as do I mine.

For those who claimed impossible, I disagree. Everything is impossible until some dang fool goes ahead and does it.

I remember a forum discussion years ago where I suggested someone could cross from Florida to Bimini in about 5 hours in a Mac 26 X. A very experienced Floridian sailor argued every which way from Sunday it was not possible. I then referred him to a blog of a guy with no prior sailing experience, bought a Mac and did the trip in 4.5 hours.

Ya see, the thing is, he didn’t know it couldn’t be done, so he just did it. ;-)

[valhalla360]

Originally Posted by ramblinrod

First of all, nobody suggested sailing the entire shoreline of each Great Lake.

Nobody covers the entire shoreline of every continent when they circumnavigate the globe.

It is still a circumnavigation.

I think I have mentioned in here many times, one would miss a lot.

20 miles /day avg. 3 days out of 4 in a Flicka 20 is doable in my opinion.

If you disagree that is fine; you certainly have the right to your opinion as do I mine.

For those who claimed impossible, I disagree. Everything is impossible until some dang fool goes ahead and does it.

As I originally indicated, the OP needs to define what a circumnavigation of the Great Lakes is. It's not a standard cruising term. There are circle the lake tours...where you basically run the entire coast of the lakes.

If a circumnavigation of the world implies you go all the way around the world, going all the way around the lakes would be the closest I could see to being equivalent. Popping out onto Lake Superior for 10 miles and then turning around doesn't seem to be in the spirit of a circumnavigation. It would be like starting on the Indian Ocean near the entrance of the red sea cutting across the Atlantic to Panama and as soon as you touch the Pacific calling it a circumnavigation because you were on all the oceans needed to circumnavigate the world even though you only touched the Indian and Pacific Oceans for a few miles.

Again, no one said it couldn't be done. But to do anything that could remotely be called a Circumnavigation in one season on such a slow boat is more of a stunt than anything else and likely to put the OP in dangerous situations if he forces the issue.

Now if he just wants to say his boat touched all the Great Lakes in 1 season, that's pretty doable. Start near Mackinaw, do a day sail to the far side of the bridge to catch Michigan. A couple days up to touch Superior then a down current run to touch Ontario should be around 700 miles. That would be an easy summer. But it would be tough to claim you circumnavigated the lakes.

[ramblinrod]

Originally Posted by valhalla360

As I originally indicated, the OP needs to define what a circumnavigation of the Great Lakes is. It's not a standard cruising term. There are circle the lake tours...where you basically run the entire coast of the lakes.

If a circumnavigation of the world implies you go all the way around the world, going all the way around the lakes would be the closest I could see to being equivalent. Popping out onto Lake Superior for 10 miles and then turning around doesn't seem to be in the spirit of a circumnavigation. It would be like starting on the Indian Ocean near the entrance of the red sea cutting across the Atlantic to Panama and as soon as you touch the Pacific calling it a circumnavigation because you were on all the oceans needed to circumnavigate the world even though you only touched the Indian and Pacific Oceans for a few miles.

Again, no one said it couldn't be done. But to do anything that could remotely be called a Circumnavigation in one season on such a slow boat is more of a stunt than anything else and likely to put the OP in dangerous situations if he forces the issue.

Now if he just wants to say his boat touched all the Great Lakes in 1 season, that's pretty doable. Start near Mackinaw, do a day sail to the far side of the bridge to catch Michigan. A couple days up to touch Superior then a down current run to touch Ontario should be around 700 miles. That would be an easy summer. But it would be tough to claim you circumnavigated the lakes.

I would not have any problem with someone claiming
To have “Circmnavigated the Great Lakes in one season” as I described, in a continuous loop, starting in Detroit, ending in Detroit and having sailed some distance in every Great Lake. I would balk if one claimed they had “Circumnavigated each of the Great Lakes in one season”.

That’s the kind of guy I am. I would think to myself, “Gee, that’s one heckuvan accomplishment, instead of trying to diminish it over semantics.

[Mike OReilly]

I thought the OP described his route as being something like north up L. Michigan, into Superior. Circumnavigating Superior (which seems very unlikely to me), then south along the North Channel islands, down the Tobermory peninsula, through the rivers, along the south of Erie, through the Welland, then around Ontario, and then back.

The issue is not just about distance and whether it is theoretically possible given a certain pace. The reality of travelling, particularly the northern BIG Lakes, in a small boat, early in the season, is part of what pushes this journey into the very unlikely and potentially dangerous category. As someone who has spent over a decade in Lake Superior, an extensive amount of time in the North Channel, and have sailed most of this route, I offer that the OP’s plan can only be accomplished by a very skilled sailor and cruiser, and even then will require quite a bit of luck. IOW, it is very unlikely to be doable.

It seems like we’re all (even RR) is saying the same thing. So, I hope the OP has received the info he needs.

[Steve Bean]

To change the topic a little, what is the relationship between marine head and alcohol? Is this referring to the beverage type of alcohol or the kind used as fuel?

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by Steve Bean

To change the topic a little, what is the relationship between marine head and alcohol? Is this referring to the beverage type of alcohol or the kind used as fuel?

In Canada (not sure about the USA), you can only consume alcohol on board if your have proper marine head.

[ramblinrod]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

In Canada (not sure about the USA), you can only consume alcohol on board if your have proper marine head.

That is because we like our beer eh, and don’t want the Canadian Great Lakes to turn foamy. I’m told our water sanitation plants have hops, yeast and malt extractors so it doesn’t get into the environment . ;-)

[ramblinrod]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

I thought the OP described...

The OP original question was regarding a Great Lakes circumnavigation in one season.

Everyone has agreed this is very ambitious.

An adjunct post was an itinery that has been adequately covered, as not likely doable in one season.

Rather than quash the OPs dreams altogether, and continuously
harp about an ill-conceived plan, I have suggested one Great Lake per season, or a route that would be a continuous loop, starting and ending in Detroit and at least touching each of the Great Lakes that would be a reasonably feasible itinerary in one boat season by a competent sailor on a mission in a sound and well found Flicka 20.

[ramblinrod]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

In Canada (not sure about the USA), you can only consume alcohol on board if your have proper marine head.

Kinda forgot an important element, one cannot be underway and consume alcohol. Must be at a dock or at anchor.

The TSA used to have dinghy raft up parties in the north channel. One would anchor and everyone would join and tie off. Those who wished to imbibe did. I advised that we had to have the raft tied to a boat with a marine head, or we could all get dinged for “liquor out of residence”. A vessel has to be not underway, have a head, and cooking facilities, to be an eligible residence.

[Zugbug99]

As a new boat owner in the Great Lakes, and limited previous long distance sailing I agree with those that recommend slowing down, and enjoying the beauty the Great Lakes has to offer.
I spent a month getting to learn the boat, and sailing on Lake Saint Clair before wasting off on my first solo trip down the Detroit river to the Bass Islands of Eest Lake Erie. Beautiful weather one day followed by 20knot winds with 3 foot standing waves that literally look like sawteeth. I was used to the gentle swells of the Pacific. The weather in the Great Lakes can turn on a dime.
Slow down, take your time. Enjoy a great boat like the Flicka in some of the most beautiful cruising areas of the world.
Best wishes!

[tomdidit]

The OP original circumnavigating the Great Lakes shoreline seems to have morphed to others options. While I totally agree that a true circumnavigation of Great Lakes shoreline would be a very extreme undertaking in one season there have been other "bucket List"undertakings that you could also morph to.
A woman did navigate the shorelines of Michigan, Huron, and Superion one year from March to October. In a kayak! She then put in in Erie and made it to Toronto by December when weather forced her to stop. I believe she was the first person to do the three lakes in a year.
Although far from circumnavigating the lakes many people have swam in all five lakes in less than 24 hours. If your only objective is to sail in all the lakes in a season, or a day, it can certainly be done. A trailer sailor could drop in at Port Dover, ON, Hamilton, On, Mackinaw City or St. Ignace to do both Huron and Michigan, then drive north and drop into Superior and you have done all the lakes. You would have to miss an awful lot of beauty because you would have to sail off and right back on the trailer to make it in a day.
This post might seem an extreme of of the original, but the thread seemed to be going that way anyway.

[Mike OReilly]

Agreed. Like I said earlier, there are lots of great areas and regions I’d focus on with a Flicka. The North Channel, down through Georgian Bay, then through the Trent would be an awesome way to spend a full season. Any portion of that would also be a great season.

If big water is desired there’s a great stretch of islands and bays to explore from Thunder Cape to Rossport on the L. Superior north shore. The Apostle Islands or Isle Royale are nice. The 1000 Islands is a wonderful and easy cruising ground. There is so much that is possible in such a vast and varied area as the Great Lakes.

[ramblinrod]

Agreed, like I said earlier, one Great Lake per season, in a continuous loop, would be terrific (that's my plan).

However, if one has only one boat season they can devote to a Great Lakes circumnavigation (aka loop), the route I suggested should be doable.

By starting in Detroit and travelling west to east in the lower Great Lakes, one would be going with the current most of the way, and staying south in the spring, moving north as it warms up, and letting the black flies die off before heading north.


Notes about bugs in the Southern Great Lakes...

Less than up north, but the stable flies one may encounter on Lake Ontario (especially eastern) are relentless ankle biters. (Bring reliable fly swatters and keep your feet out of the cockpit foot well.)

Notes about bugs in the Northern Great Lakes....

The black flies will eat you alive in April and May.

They are mostly replaced by mosquitos that will eat you alive in June (especially near dusk and dawn).

They are mostly replaced by deer flies that will eat you alive in July (especially in the heat of a still day).

They are mostly replaced by horse flies that will eat you alive in August (it doesn't take many as they remove big chunks of flesh).

September is beautiful, bug-free (mostly) cruising.

Which is replaced by frost bites in October.

;-)

[capnJ]

Yes, heat will be really nice if you want to get in the whole 6 months. Bimini is not worth it, unless you are trying to close it in and keep the wind out, but this is a strategy for anchored living, not sailing. We have spent the last 4 years cruising aboard a PacSea Crealock. So far we have gone only about 5000 miles. Do the math; at our speed your total GL trip will take a lot more time. Start slowly and find a pace first. Take time to find the roses. Smell them. Then start sketching in plans for the rest of the season.

[SVTatia]

Originally Posted by JOHN LECZNAR

Seeking advise on the following:

I have purchased a bare bones 1979 Pacific Seacraft Flicka with the intent to ready her this summer for circumnavigating the Great Lakes coastline next season, I'm anticipating it will take 5-6 months. (Bucket List - I'm retired and on a tight budget).

Project elements (to date):
1) I've rebuilt the hatch in oak and teak;
2) I've ordered a set of new sails (North Sails) and considering asking a forestay for a storm jib;
3) I'm having a dodger installed and have been advised to add a Bimini;
4) I've added shoreline power and would like to add capability to charge my batteries will docked;
5) I purchased a bladder to attach to my water pump faucet;
6) I purchased a porta-potty;
7) I'm researching to select and install a sailing GPS.

Greatly appreciated.

JOHN!! Where are you?

Please come back here and post that you have given up!
Please do before a lot of damage is done.
(just kidding folks).