So how long is long enough

[Kanani]

I started out much like you, only a bit more aggressive and not nearly as smart.

My wife and I went sailing with a friend one time. We decided to buy a boat and sail around the world. We sold everything that we had, took basic sailing lessons and headed for Hawaii from Long Beach, Ca, January the following year. We planned on a 3 year circumnavigation and we were gone for 14 years and 2 circumnavigations.

Am I recommending this?.....No way. Was it the right thing to do?....probably not for 99% of people. Was it right for us? ........absolutely.

While we were leaving Long Beach Harbor, we ripped our jib while I was trying to furl it in. We stopped at the sail-makers and our yacht broker met us there. He thought we were nuts. We hadn't even sailed that boat to Catalina Isl. I had only read about reefing the mainsail. Although, Catalina was our first stop.

We planned to sail straight South until we reached the tropics then head West to Hawaii. Lack of experience and sheer gusts/stupidity allowed me to lull into the fine weather that we had off shore so we just sailed a rum-line course. We got our ass kicked but good. 7 cold fronts in 30 days. 4 of them had gale force winds and 1 had winds of 60kts.

I would have to say that most couples would have been in divorce court upon arrival in Hawaii. In fact, that actually happens more times than you can imagine.

I am telling you this for one reason and one reason only......If you value your marriage as much as you value this concept, take it in steps. Make a few 5 or 10 day passages out to sea. Even if you don't go anywhere. Just go to sea a couple hundred miles and be sure that you can live with each other out there and that you can work as a team and both enjoy it during the hard times as well as the good.

Some people don't even need to know how to sail. They'll learn, we did (I do recommend a good book on sailing terminology). I even learned celestial navigation on the way (our Sat-Nav failed). I had a brand new sextant, complete with instructions in an un-opened box. However, you do need to know IF you can survive and survive together. A lot of people ask me what sailing long ocean passages is like. I have a pat (and very true) answer......"Its 90% boredom and 10% sheer terror". I would recommend to experiencing that 10% before you head off with a dream that could very well fall apart on your 1st long passage.

You've had some good advice in this thread (mostly). However, it has been my experience (all over the world it's the same) that most "Cruisers" are all gathered at the "Jumping-off point" waiting for weather or making those "Final repairs". Fort Lauderdale is the worst. I would recommend staying away from that place. There are sooooooo many boats that sit there for years, waiting for that perfect "Time" to cross that 50 mile stretch to the Bahamas. I have seen that in ports from Florida to So Africa.

It takes a special person to really be able to make long ocean passages successfully. I would say that it is more about mechanical aptitude than it is about sailing skills. It's also about self-confidence, guts and determination. If you are the type that quits when the going gets rough.....stay home. Don't risk the lives of others just to try to fulfill a dream. If you KNOW that you can succeed, you can fix anything that happens to the boat and you would absolutely REFUSE to try to get help when the **** hits the fan, you may well make it. All I can say is, "Don't bet your marriage on it, until you find out for sure". We were fortunate. Not all are.

[GordMay]

Originally Posted by Kanani

… I am telling you this for one reason and one reason only......If you value your marriage as much as you value this concept, take it in steps. Make a few 5 or 10 day passages out to sea. Even if you don't go anywhere. Just go to sea a couple hundred miles and be sure that you can live with each other out there and that you can work as a team and both enjoy it during the hard times as well as the good …

Kanani offers some excellent, accurate, & obviously experienced advice.

Notwithstanding, I would suggest to all newbie cruisers, that every effort be made to ensure that your early experiences are “good” ones.
These “idyllic” cruising days will form the basis upon which you (and your mate) judge the entire cruising experience.
There will be time & opportunity enough to experience the tougher times, that may eventually determine your true commitment to cruising.
If delayed, those challenges tend to be viewed as the exception, and foster a more favourable outcome.

[MarkJ]

Originally Posted by Reluctantsailor

...is one summer on the lake enough time to safely then plan to head out?

You don't learn at home.
You are in a perfect position to buy and go. If you buy something in Toronto, or the great lakes, just cast off as soon as the ice melts (?) and head out to the sea.
Have a stop for a few days in Nova Scottia and rest and assess. Maybe do some day sails around the island.

If you are feeling pretty happy then head for the Med direct, via the Azores. If not then go down the USA coast slowly and pounce on Florida and then the Caribbean moments after the Hurricane season.

Either way, by the end of your summer you will have learned most of what you need to know and be thousands of miles from home. Bliss

No way I am crossing the atlantic I told him I would meet him there with with the dog..

"No" is not a healthy word in this life. But dogs maybe a no-no in many countries.

The Atlantic is a fairly small patch of water first knocked over by some blokes in 1492 who forgot their GPS. To sell a few books they dramatised story. For the same reason folks have been dramatising their accounts ever since. Its 2,600 nms. Which breaks neatly into one leg of 1,500nm and one of 1,100, i.e. a 1 week sail and a few days sail. Short enough legs to do in a summer weather window.


If you do it, don't hire a 'skipper', do it yourself. Theres nothing worse than someone else making decisions about your boat on your cruise! Plus you dont learn anything!


Just go do it.




Mark

[Kanani]

Originally Posted by MarkJ

The Atlantic is a fairly small patch of water ................

Its 2,600 nms. Which breaks neatly into one leg of 1,500nm and one of 1,100, i.e. a 1 week sail and a few days sail. Short enough legs to do in a summer weather window.


If you do it, don't hire a 'skipper', do it yourself. Theres nothing worse than someone else making decisions about your boat on your cruise! Plus you dont learn anything!


Just go do it.




Mark

Just a comment on route planning here. It's really not a good idea to advise people that they can make a 1500 mile passage in week.

I have found when you do passage planning, it is best to plan on 100nm per day. If someone has it in their head that they can do 1500nm in a week (I'd like to see that) or even 10 days, they will start getting very discourgaged about half way through their passage. The rest of the passage could be quite miserable.

I have made many passages that were 165 mile days, day after day and I have also made many MORE passages that averaged 100 miles a day (including some 25-50 mile days).

On my last voyage, Panama to San Diego, via the Galapagos, a couple of (inexperienced) guys came to me in Panama and asked me advise about provisioning as they were making the same passage (ending in San Fransico). I told them to plan on making less than 100 miles per day and doubling the amount of rations that they think they might need. I added, "There are no grocery stores out there". If you have problems, DON'T count on living on fish,

We crossed the Equator on June 1st (1st day of hurricane season), a little behind schedule. At about 15 degrees North, I got a call from this same guy, on SSB (he heard me checking in on the net). They were at 12 degrees North and running out of food. I told him that I would get to 20 degrees North (to get out of hurricane alley) and wait for him. I got to 20 degrees N and there was a hurricane off the coast of Mexico that was concerning me a little but we hove-to and sat there for 3 days waiting for these guys. They were down to pancake batter and water.

When they got to us, we motored along side each other (about 50' apart) and I transfered over a bag of about 75# of food. We rigged a line between the 2 vessels and supported the bag with halyards. Not a fun thing to do. The last thing we needed was to be dismasted, 500 miles off-shore. Had they not met up with us, they probably would have starved to death out there. Not a pleasant thought.

As for hiring a skipper.....not many delivery captains will accept a delivery with the owner on board. I wouldn't do it for double the fee.

[MarkJ]

Originally Posted by Kanani

They were down to pancake batter and water.

Originally Posted by Kanani

Yes, but you havent tasted Nicolles pancakes!!!

I agree with you on the time estimations and its a good point made. Its taken me longer to get from Rio to Mar Del Platta than crossing from Cape Verde to Rio! However there would be few that do less than 150 these days unless it was upwind as in the voyage you describe.

Provisioning is a quick trip to the supermarket. But that doesn’t mean you roll out with a half empty shopping trolley!

One luxury we have at home, and no where else in the whole world, is a supermarket where we know every aisle and most of the products. No need for squinting at a photo on a label and grabbing the English : Swahilli dictionary. Its only at home that you basically know which cans of, say a meat, is palatable over a year and you can buy 24 of them. So buy 24 of anything and everything you love and stuff it behind any cushion that moves. Not only is it good for emergency rations but our prized delecacies are not in so prized in other cultures. Of course I am now about to mention to Americans and Canadians the value of Vegimite, it tastes great, is good for you and now will you please stock it in your supermarkets!

Mark

[ughmo2000]

I'll open a can of worms....

After a few trips in various seasons/routes, sailing trans-Atlantic isn't that big a deal. If one uses a bit of common sense, picks their time of year, route, and has some sort of equipment to receive weather. Just another day on the pond followed by another.

I mean what exactly is supposed to be sooo difficult about it? Take care of the boat and each other.

I still say take a couple lessons, get accustomed to your boat for a season then throw off the dock lines.

I also like delivering boats with new owners. It gets me fired up seeing how excited they get.

[GordMay]

A large can of Vegemite could a great mooring (it’s an acquired taste, for which there's no accounting).
For those (fortunates) who haven’t tasted Vegemite. it tastes very salty, and a little bitter.


Kraft Foods is not importing the yeast byproduct into the USA:
Joanna Scott, spokesperson for Vegemite's maker, Kraft, reportedly has said, "The Food and Drug Administration doesn't allow the import of Vegemite simply because the recipe does have the addition of folic acid".
More:
Urban Legends Reference Pages: Vegemite Ban

[Doghouse]

One summer is not enough to learn.

Our first summer was a great learning experiance. We figured out how to set that sails, and maintain the motor. I knew anchoring and navigation from owning a power boat.

Our second summer taught us that we had to watch the weather. We were caught out in 30 knot winds and 4' seas. Mind you we only have a 27' so that was rough. On the Chesapeake bay that is a mixed confused 4' chop. I worked my way through it and in the middle of it my wife looked back and yelled "Heck this is not that bad!"

That moment I knew I married the right woman. The second time I knew it was horriable out there, but having done it once I knew the boat could handle the question now was how much could we take. I intentionally put us out in 30-35 knot winds with 4-6' seas. It was one he77 of a workout. At no time was the boat in danger, be I learned what it took to stear around crab pots in those seas. It taught us how important balancing the boat is, and how many thing will go flying if they are not properly stowed. Also, she learned what is was like to go green. She only chummed one time, but she now knows... Most importantly she is willing to do it again!

Now I am not recommending that you go out and purposely put yourself in danger! But until you know what it is like to have water running down the sides of the boat, you do not know how you will respond. You need some fowl weather experiance to understand what it is like.

Learning what I have, I now feel comfortable to sail the eastern seaboard and cross to the carib. Cross the pond, NO, that is a number of miles to go first.

Try taking the winter to run down the coast and visit the tropics. You can always dock the boat and fly home.

[Ex-Calif]

In America you can find Vegemite at the Auto store in the wheel bearing grease aisle - LOL.

Actually I love vegemite (mum was an Aussie) and am thankful the Singaporeans cater for it.

Reluctantsailor - Go sooner than later. If you never think you are ready you never will be...

[MarkJ]

Originally Posted by Ex-Calif

Reluctantsailor - Go sooner than later. If you never think you are ready you never will be...

Go now.
Look at the math:
Weekend sailing during summer say 6 hours x 2 days = 12 hours by 3 months = 144 hours

So thats one whole summer or 144 hours is 6 days. Thats about Toronto to Nova Scottia.

So go now.

[Cacique]

Hi my boat is only 27' and she circumnavigated 1990 -93. I would say go now but do some smallish steps first if you can, then sail offshore for a couple of days to see how you get on, if you can pick a destination a couple of days away go for it.
Best of luck

[Jim Cate]

When my wife and I started out full time cruising 22 years ago we made plans: go here for x days, sail there for y days and so on. After a few years we tended to select a general destination and head off in that direction. Nowadays we carefully write our plans in the sand at low tide, and then review them the next morning before getting the hook up. Excessive planning, for us, spoils the adventure!

As to the need for experience -- I am an advocate of starting out with a smallish and simple yacht, and sailing the hell out of it for a season or two. Only with personal experience will you be equipped to make some very important decisions: do you really want to continue with the lifestyle? what sort of boat will best fit your needs? what sort of cruising do you really want to do? What degree of complexity of systems will suit your needs? This sort of knowledge is essential to intellegently choose and equip the vessel that will be your home and your haven for some years to come. A bad choice can not only spoil your cruising, it can end your lives.

I don't believe that chartering does much to prepare you for long term off shore cruising. Chartering is having all the fun without any of the work, responsibility, or maintenance that are the realities of the lifestyle. And further, I don't believe that you can substitute lessons and weekend seminars for experience. This opinion flies in the face of current practices, but being out here in the blue, we often see the sometimes sad results of this fast track approach.

As you read through these posts, you will notice that there are lots of passionately expressed opinions about what YOU should do, and that they frequently disagree with one another So, read them all, turn down the squelch level on your BS filter, and make your own decisions... and enjoy the life! We sure as hell do!

Jim and Ann s/v Insatiable II lying Gladstone Qld, Oz

[Captain Harold]

One of the first lessons Margie and I learned was don't sail on a schedule. The beauty of cruising (to me anyway) is not the passage but the time spent learning about a new area and culture. When we were anchored on the Hudson near the entrance to the Erie Canal we helped a fellow cruiser take his mast down for his transit on the canal. He was Australian, 77 years old, and 11 years into a solo circumnavigation. Since he was about half way I guess he had another 11 years to go!
Take your time and enjoy every stop.

[pablothesailor]

2 years or so ago I had never sailed but had a dream to sail the world! I signed up for some RYA courses and have done CC, Day Skipper & Coastal skipper, ive also chartered with friends in Denmark! I am now seriously boat hunting! Am I an experienced sailor? Of course not, im a newbie, BUT, the courses I have done and the miles I have sailed have given me a new found confidence! Someone suggested a few short sails to prepare yourself, this is 100% what I plan to do, HOWEVER, I do not intend to become just another marina based sailor, sometimes you do have to take that deep breath and cast of those lines, there is a BIG danger that you keep telling yourself you need a bit more experience, suddenly life has passed you by! My advice is do some of the fantastic courses available worldwide, It has certainly turned me into a safer sailor with a much better understanding in all departments & with a new belief in my own abilities going forward, good luck!

[zeehag]

best plans are written in liquid jello