36' Rule for Liveaboard

[redhead]

Originally Posted by Jammer

At best, liveaboards increase costs for the marina by making heavier use of shared services.

In many cases, liveaboards create a disproportionate share of problems for the marina management because they lack the financial resources and space to deal with the typical problems many people face.

Because people on smaller boats are more likely to overuse shared marina resources due to a lack of sufficient space on board. Also, many people living aboard smaller vessels are in a financially precarious position.

Just not so where we are. Obviously there must be a few who are as you describe, but for the most part the liveaboards in our marina either have full time jobs (aerospace manufacturing, owner of tow truck business, selling outboards are the 3 at my dock) or are like us, retirees. And although there is security at the marina when the office is closed, liveaboards are an extension of that security. I've reported a sinking boat and the smell of propane on the dock since I've lived here. Both times I was thanked by the office staff and the boat owners.

There is one marginal boat/owner and he is looking for a land base, because he's just not equipped to spend a winter on a boat. For the most part we are not "drop outs" as you imagine, but people who prefer another way of living.

I'm just presenting the facts as I know them for the last 4 years - your judgement of liveaboards seems very biased. Perhaps your view is true in other areas.

[Chuck Hawley]

I lived aboard an Olson 30 in Sausalito for a number of years and it was never an issue. I think the idea of having "eyes and ears" in the harbor was seen as a positive, plus I was nice to the harbormaster and didn't cause problems.

Limiting someone to a 36' boat sort of reminds me of limiting the right to vote to property owners... While there may be some attempt to control the quality of the electorate by using the property "filter", I suspect it was more generally used to discriminate against classes of people.

Chuck

[Stu Jackson]

A dock neighbor next to us in a marina on Alameda a few years ago was on the wait list for many years and had bought her 36 foot boat expressly for liveaboard.

Then they upped the length to 40 feet and kicked her down to the bottom of the list.

She was not amused.

The legal liveaboards at that marina provided enhanced security for all of us. The legal liveaboards plainly saw who was trying to live aboard illegally and kept things fair, because they played by the rules.

There are many more liveaboards in our new marina here, never been an issue from what I've learned over the past few years. If anyone is disobeying the rules (illegal pump out/dumping [they just installed a pump out station at the fuel dock, one of the very few in the area]; bad, truly utterly bad behavior, etc.], then they don't last long. It's a very nice community.

[Steven UK]

thanks guys, so basically my prospective 33' boat will be either 7 or 3' too short for some places. that was a very useful 'heads up' i kind of suspected this was the case.

[GrowleyMonster]

In our marina liveaboards are allowed and do not pay extra. They are required to demonstrate that they have a legal Marine Sanitation Device or sign an affidavit stating that they will only use restroom facilities ashore. No minimum length. I lived several years and sorta still do, on a 27 footer with head and holding tank that can only be pumped out via topside fitting, and shower stall that pumps overboard. No hanging laundry to dry is allowed, and the lease requires holding tanks to be pumped out every month regardless. Every boat, liveaboard or otherwise, must be capable of moving under its own power, though this is selectively enforced. Management considers the liveaboard community to be its best security asset, much more effective than the minimum wage rentacops that you can never find because they are at home sleeping instead of earning their pay. Liveaboards know enough to see if a boat is down on her marks and possibly sinking. Liveaboards know when someone is a stranger or a tenant, and what questions to ask to verify that someone is likely an invited guest or not. They know boats and know when something is wrong with their neighbor's boat. Liveaboards here who violate the rules can and do have liveaboard priveleges revoked, or their lease canceled altogether. Because of the liberal rules, we don't have any "sneakaboards" and nobody dumping crap buckets over the side. All boats are required by the marina to have salvage and removal coverage, and we have basically zero derelict boat problem. Can't sail in or out, which would be a lease violation, so engine has to run. Else, demonstrate that you are equipped and capable of rowing it. The marina is well run and well kept, and we seldom have problems with city, parish, state or fed agencies snooping around. Not even Coast Guard. If there were turds or oil slicks floating around all over the place, things would probably be different.


It is quite possible to live on some very small boats. No reason to limit liveaboarding to larger boats. Liveaboards can be a liability, but with well thought rules they can be more an asset. And yeah, we have a few liveaboards who are liveaboards simply because they cannot afford to live ashore. But they pay their rent, they keep up their boats, and they follow the rules or they can't stay. We have a good pumpout station and there is seldom a long wait to get to it. We have good water service and decent shower facilities ashore for those who need them. The average liveaboard where I am is on a boat under 36', I think. I don't know of any other marina in the New Orleans or Lake Pontchartrain area that has a minimum liveaboard length, either. And what if they did? Lots of 40' and up boats around here that can be had for a couple thousand, that fit nicely into the derelict category. Some on Bayou Bonfouca and other places that you could probably tow away under cover of darkness and next morning the owners would celebrate finally being rid of it. Length satisfied? Check. But a piece of crap, a hazard to the health and the boats of surrounding marina tenants. Contrast that to an immaculately cared for Nonsuch or West Wight Potter with some poor college student living aboard, and the whole length thing, and income, sort of don't add up to much. Yachting does not have to be a rich man's pastime. Sorry, folks. It ain't gonna be that way.

[Cadence]

Originally Posted by gmakhs

Why do marinas hate live aboardss? What it matter if someone live aboard on 40 or 30 feet ?

It may come down to economics? The usage of the facilities bathrooms, showers, trash collection, etc. Lets face it. a weekender will hardly use them a live aboard probably will daily. The extra price per foot plus the larger boat is more likely to use onboard facilities. JMHO

[Baba Buoy]

Have you noticed how run down and unseaworthy cheap boats are being advertised by yacht brokers as potential liveaboards? I talked to a Coast Guard fella who said that one broker near Wilmington, CA, was notorious for selling cheap boats to homeless and that a high number of these boats sink in their slips due to non maintenance. The Coast Guard is left holding the bag for removal/disposal. Sadly the majority of homeless have substance abuse and/or mental health issues, so maybe this is driving a need to better vet prospect liveaboards.

[ArmyDaveNY]

Are they stating that the boat has to be a 36 foot boat or bigger, or that they bill a minimum based upon a 36 foot boat?

[wrwakefield]

It only takes one poor example to create/reinforce stereotypical impressions others might harbor... and if this was your only impression...

I took this photo in Jan-2017 at an old, delapidated commercial marina which has since been torn down to rebuild. The harbor office is putting rules in place to help prevent reoccurrences of this behavior. They didn't anticipate this happening in a [primarily] commercial boat facility...

This demonstrates size doesn't matter.

I've seen this before over the years in many places. The most effective preventative safeguard I've seen is the requirement for insurance [liability with minimum coverage stipulated] and the requirement to demonstrate the vessel can depart, maneuver, and re-dock under its own power upon advance written notice.

An extreme example, perhaps, but very real.

May this never happen to any of us...

-Bill

[ArmyDaveNY]

Originally Posted by wrwakefield

I took this photo in Jan-2017 at an old, delapidated commercial marina which has since been torn down to rebuild. The harbor office is putting rules in place to help prevent reoccurrences of this behavior. They didn't anticipate this happening in a [primarily] commercial boat facility...

An extreme example, perhaps, but very real.

May this never happen to any of us...

-Bill

IS that Captain Ron's boat?

[wrwakefield]

Originally Posted by Cadence

It may come down to economics? The usage of the facilities bathrooms, showers, trash collection, etc. Lets face it. a weekender will hardly use them a live aboard probably will daily. The extra price per foot plus the larger boat is more likely to use onboard facilities. JMHO

Cadence, I believe you point out a major consideration– and why extra fees are often charged for living aboard.

As an example, the marina where we keep a full time slip [but only use it part time...] charges a 'liveaboard' fee if you stay on your boat more than 14 days in a calendar month. [US$90/month– up to 2 individuals.]

That fee is specifically stated to cover these amenities: [this marina targets commercial boats, so amenities are fewer vs. a facility which caters to recreational vessels...]

-water
-trash
-pumpout
-restroom [one small building in parking lot- no showers or laundry; typically closed several months in winter]

My casual observations are these facilities [restroom and trash] are also extensively used by non-boaters because it is a convenient stop on a drive to and from town...

Extra fees and severely limiting the number of 'official' livaboards [4/hundreds of vessels] seems to keep the issues being discussed in check at this marina.

Does this mean people don't live on their boats for more than half of any given month during their preferred season[s]? Not at all. It means if you have permission to liveaboard full time [4 boats] you are subject to the fees. The others who may occupy their vessel for 3-4 months out of the year are not charged extra fees, and are always shocked to learn that we are.

In this example, obviously the marina chooses to reduce the effect of livaboards as an extra revenue source.

One example of many...

Cheers! Bill

[Kita]

I wonder if I have a 34ft Gemini 105mc catamaran I can count the davit to gain enough? LOL....I did have a marina say that they would charge me a little more if they stuck out there...never heard of a minimum length before for a liveaboard. Go figure I buy a 34 footer. Story of My Life,,,a day late two feet short

[Sailmonkey]

Originally Posted by wrwakefield

It only takes one poor example to create/reinforce stereotypical impressions others might harbor... and if this was your only impression...

An extreme example, perhaps, but very real.

May this never happen to any of us...

-Bill

But the sails are hanked on and ready to propel the boat at any time!!

[oregoncycle]

Am I missing something here? How do these marinas allow someone in without insurance? Both here in my Oregon Marina and the same for when I had my boats in Alaska I couldn't even get on the waiting list without proof of insurance (1 million) to protect the marina from oil spills, sinking, ect.

[hellosailor]

"The CoE has no rules about liveaboards, and their philosophy is that if a use is not specifically allowed, then it is forbidden."
How curious, since the federal courts have made it abundantly clear so many times that "If it isn't prohibited, IT IS ALLOWED." Pretty much as to everything.