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**TrentePieds** · 23-12-2015, 07:16

@LizzyBelle #86

I know. Had friends in Aardenburg. About halfway twixt Breskens and Bruges as the crow flies. Precious few hills down that way for the cowards to flee to ;-0)!

Back then, early 50s, I usta be able to hoke up some Dutch. I'll polish up what remains by following your blog.

TrentePieds

stefano_ita · 23-12-2015, 07:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blue Crab

But take it lightly they do. I think it's criminal to put family and friends into the occasional life/death, and more often scary situations the Captain Blithes of the world do. The family/friends have to have faith, and it's often undeserved. After a lot of experience, one may learn how to cope in extremis, but for most of us the ocean gets scarier as the wind pipes up.

I will answer to this as the other post about chartering responsabilities.

I know that there is a very big responsability making chartering, even just in a closed flat calm seas like adriatic seas...

Ah, occasional chartering is possible only by taking off and landing from italian port...so not chartering in the ocean..

If in italy evevrybody can do it, they earn much more money to live in a month that in year (all italy right now is living with parents and grand parent's sacrifice, earnings , and goods), why i should not do it too, for sure MUCH MORE professionally, than many other people (read the story of my charter holiday of last summer, if you want i add a stories of a friend that run aground in croatia...a skipper like me chartered a 60 ft boat, full of 12 person, the maximum at 700 euro each, for the week, get 12 person, make THEM pay for the deposid, run aground, holiday ruined, he get the money and 0 responsability, the guest loose all the deposit and payed the holiday...italian laws, it would cost 5x more to go to a lawyer, wit 15 year for a judge decision, than lose your money and stop)

At least i take it very very seriously, everything checked....Not my dad boat that for 6 moth a year is on the hard and well....I don't know if engine has enought oil in it...Hope yes...

stefano_ita · 23-12-2015, 07:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lizzy Belle

I asked this before (in your other topic I think ...):

You say you have to charter to afford the boat. But because you need 5 or more berths to charter, your 33' becomes 70'. All you're buying for all that extra money is beds & showers so you can have guests for about a month every year.

If you can't afford a 32' boat with 2 people working full time (I can afford 29' with 1 person working part time) - how are you EVER going to afford maintaining a 50 - 70' boat?!

It just makes no sense - having to buy a boat you can't afford in the hopes of making enough money in one month to last you a year - including all the related boat costs!

Just go with a 32' boat - I have a hard time accepting that you wouldn't be able to afford that with 2 salaries.

Yes, i'm spending more money just to bed and toilet...Maybe just personally for a bigger kitchen and a more stable boat.

Yeah i know it could sound crazy but it's the thruth...

With a part time salaries in italy....hm...you can afford to mantain a bike maybe...

Just to have a match

The manager of my office, works 12 hours a day, tons of experience, very very expert, he knows everybody, custom officier, friend of everybody, and so on, manager of 12 worker..1500 euro at month.

A 22 years old girls from finland, working in the summer in a supermarket, first job 1800 euro.

A danish girl, finished studies in education, first time working as teacher 2500 euro /month (don't remember in danis krona)

Maybe 2 old enginner can afford a 35 ft a boat in the water in a marina... (i know some doctors that have boats, some OWNER of company...)

End of OT

barnakiel · 23-12-2015, 07:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by stefano_ita

Just to have a match

Stefano,

Just to have a match, first you have to match.

And when thinking boat building one further factor is say Bavaria may be buying polyester resin at EUR 3,00 a liter (tens of thousands of liters each year). A home boat builder will buy the same resin at perhaps EUR 9,00 a liter (hundreds of liters, once). The same applies to all other materials. Then think about efficiency of the work force - a big boatyard will have a specialised technician for each task (electrical, lamination, engines, fittings, rigging, etc.) - this brings quality improvement and time savings.

Economies of scale. You must know this (and a zillion other economy facts and half-facts) if you want to charter. If you want to do anything that will get you where that Danish girl is, too.

No home builder can match a mass production builder in price, even if SOME could overtake the mass builder in quality (but not in time required to build the boat).

Do you have the 10 years required to build a boat and are you willing to sacrifice this time? Do you have the perseverance? Is there an alternative, more effective way to use the 10 years? (And who knows if we are still around in 10 years?). et cetera

It costs well over EUR 100k in materials only to build a series built quality monohull in a highly skilled, small factor, boatyard.

We cannot beat facts. What we CAN do is to know the facts and act accordingly. We can either keep on dreaming or else wake up and act. In fact you can tell the woken up one from the still dreaming one by this one thing only - the one that acts is awake. The other one is not.

Cheers,
b.

**TrentePieds** · 23-12-2015, 08:01

I'm beginning to think that we were right, way back in my callow youth, when we said that reality is an altered state of mind brought about by a shortage of cannabis :-)

Hoots, men - and lassies!

TrentePieds

barnakiel · 23-12-2015, 08:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by stefano_ita

The manager of my office, works 12 hours a day, tons of experience, very very expert, he knows everybody, custom officier, friend of everybody, and so on, manager of 12 worker..1500 euro at month.

A 22 years old girls from finland, working in the summer in a supermarket, first job 1800 euro.

A danish girl, finished studies in education, first time working as teacher 2500 euro /month (don't remember in danis krona)

Nothing to do with sailing, chartering, building boats.

"Just to have a match."

THIS WILL NEVER HAPPEN

Roman Empire ended some time ago, now the empire is elsewhere. Plain history. Swallow it.

Then compare your Italian wages with wages of equivalent specialists working in Haiti.

Now what?

You are free to move, free to travel, to work elsewhere too. You are freaking YOUNG and can get another skill, better job, own company, heaps of cash and a dream boat.

Just forget looking at what others have and why they have it. Such thinking does nothing to change your situation. Only by acting you can get from where you are to where you want to be.

So forget the wages of that Danish girl and her German engineer boyfriend. Build a charter company and have the girl and her boyfriend as guests. Paying guests, say 100 EUR per person per day. In no time you are making as much as they make, or more.

Just talking. I am neither Jesus nor any other self styled life coach.

Hugs,
b.

stefano_ita · 23-12-2015, 08:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by barnakiel

Stefano,

Just to have a match, first you have to match.

And when thinking boat building one further factor is say Bavaria may be buying polyester resin at EUR 3,00 a liter (tens of thousands of liters each year). A home boat builder will buy the same resin at perhaps EUR 9,00 a liter (hundreds of liters, once). The same applies to all other materials. Then think about efficiency of the work force - a big boatyard will have a specialised technician for each task (electrical, lamination, engines, fittings, rigging, etc.) - this brings quality improvement and time savings.

Economies of scale. You must know this (and a zillion other economy facts and half-facts) if you want to charter. If you want to do anything that will get you where that Danish girl is, too.

No home builder can match a mass production builder in price, even if SOME could overtake the mass builder in quality (but not in time required to build the boat).

Do you have the 10 years required to build a boat and are you willing to sacrifice this time? Do you have the perseverance? Is there an alternative, more effective way to use the 10 years? (And who knows if we are still around in 10 years?). et cetera

It costs well over EUR 100k in materials only to build a series built quality monohull in a highly skilled, small factor, boatyard.

We cannot beat facts. What we CAN do is to know the facts and act accordingly. We can either keep on dreaming or else wake up and act. In fact you can tell the woken up one from the still dreaming one by this one thing only - the one that acts is awake. The other one is not.

Cheers,
b.

I perfectly know scale economy thanks, i realized that, for this in stead of dreaming and thinking (maybe without really recognizing the big effort in making it i prefer go directly to stop dreaming, began to living according as i would like (i'm not anymore 17 years old) and experience, meaning buy the used)

stefano_ita · 23-12-2015, 09:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by TrentePieds

I'm beginning to think that we were right, way back in my callow youth, when we said that reality is an altered state of mind brought about by a shortage of cannabis :-)

Hoots, men - and lassies!

TrentePieds

Lol

Never smoked a cigarette in my life, never get drunk once.

But i like the smell of a cold diesel idling in the morning (joking...)

stefano_ita · 23-12-2015, 09:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by barnakiel

Nothing to do with sailing, chartering, building boats.

"Just to have a match."

THIS WILL NEVER HAPPEN

Roman Empire ended some time ago, now the empire is elsewhere. Plain history. Swallow it.

Then compare your Italian wages with wages of equivalent specialists working in Haiti.

Now what?

You are free to move, free to travel, to work elsewhere too. You are freaking YOUNG and can get another skill, better job, own company, heaps of cash and a dream boat.

Just forget looking at what others have and why they have it. Such thinking does nothing to change your situation. Only by acting you can get from where you are to where you want to be.

So forget the wages of that Danish girl and her German engineer boyfriend. Build a charter company and have the girl and her boyfriend as guests. Paying guests, say 100 EUR per person per day. In no time you are making as much as they make, or more.

Just talking. I am neither Jesus nor any other self styled life coach.

Hugs,
b.

This one are the kind of post that i really like

(together with the previous one about dreaming or wake up and acting)

I perfectly thought about this, and i quote your idea.

Mine one was first get the boat, make experience in short travel like adriatic, med, around italy, then, if i like lifestyle and so on, open a charter business, hire a capitain for 3 years (i need 3 years of on board before getting the professional capitain licence in italy), then fire the capitain and became the live aboard capitain of the the my boat.

However even if not needed both me and my gf, will get the STWC 95 life at seas course before move on board (900 euro each)- Safety first, always.

If you think that the book to study for the italian boating licence say : in case of an outboard engine set up on fire, get it and throw it outboard...

With a safety swimsuit everything is easier ahahah

p.s. I remember now about this summer sailing, i still don't know where are lifejacket...The skipper never told us where they were...

Iaangus · 23-12-2015, 09:33

It kind of sounds like life has beat you down, if so, I'm thinking building your own boat will kill you. Read some boat building blogs.

stefano_ita · 23-12-2015, 10:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Iaangus

It kind of sounds like life has beat you down, if so, I'm thinking building your own boat will kill you. Read some boat building blogs.

....Maybe you are right...Yes...

I read a lot about boatbuilding and i can see myself building (maybe in my dreams as stated before LOL) as best and as fast as possible a boat but well...I prefere act right now...

Lizzy Belle · 23-12-2015, 10:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by stefano_ita

Yes, i'm spending more money just to bed and toilet...Maybe just personally for a bigger kitchen and a more stable boat.

Yeah i know it could sound crazy but it's the thruth...

With a part time salaries in italy....hm...you can afford to mantain a bike maybe...

So ... you can't really afford a boat, not even a 30-32' one, so you're going to buy a 50' - 70' boat in the hopes that chartering for 46 DAYS a year will bring in so much cash you can afford to keep and maintain a huge boat ... cos you want a bigger kitchen

stefano_ita · 23-12-2015, 10:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lizzy Belle

So ... you can't really afford a boat, not even a 30-32' one, so you're going to buy a 50' - 70' boat in the hopes that chartering for 46 DAYS a year will bring in so much cash you can afford to keep and maintain a huge boat ... cos you want a bigger kitchen

Ahahah LOL

No, being the only way to survive, get out from the capitalist lifestyle, get more money that what i get now, no flat rant to pay...The bigger kitchen is a "unwanted" pro of a boat that has 6 beths