A third liveaboard question: How do I know the serious blue water boats?

[river251]

A lot of online research has not unconfused me about how you know a sailboat is really a serious cross-ocean sailboat.

Is there a list somewhere, listing boats that are real Water boats">blue water boats and those that are production boats (if that's the right terminology)?

Or, is there a list of what features a real blue water boat has, so I could determine if any boat is right for crossing oceans in. I may eventually want to do that someday, and not buy a new boat.

Thank you again. Chrisr made me aware I'm re-asking all the beginner questions that others have endured ad-nauseum. My apologies for that.

Jim

[Chotu]

Tankage, payload, reefs in sails, rights easily if knocked down, comfortable (it’s your home while traveling), strong accessories like windlass and companionway hatch, self steering

That’s an ok start

[ChrisJHC]

Try searching for “best Bluewater boats”.

350 million hits in under a second.

Then look at the first couple of articles to see what features regularly come up.

Then decide what weighting you would put on those features.

Finally, narrow down your list of brands to those that best suit your criteria.

[Cheechako]

Much of it is opinion... and how safety conservative you are. So it's bound to be confusing. I think a lot is reputation, sturdiness, ease of handling in a rough situation.
It doesn't take much of a barrier to keep the water out and you in, 1/8" of fiberglass will keep you dry..... But when the ocean gets rough, water mass + velocity is a very powerful thing.
-Fiberglass/resin is not a stiff material on it's own, it's more flexy than aluminum and aluminum far more flexy than steel, so design thought matters.
-Repetitive flexure cracks things. (Like breaking a steel coat hanger by bending back and forth.)
-Parts of a boat with sharp corners instead of big radii are more highly stressed.
(Keel fairing into the hull or catamaran ama/hull's faired to the bridge deck.)
-Unsupported long lengths are less strong. (Short keels instead of long.)
-Unsupported beams (Spade rudder) are not near as strong as supported beams.
-Boat makers all say their boats are capable. But do you want to be in a demolition derby in a Mini Cooper or a Caddilac?

In the end, everything is a compromise, speed for strength, etc.

[ilenart]

The list at the end of this page is not bad, though you’ll get plenty of comments that “my boat’s not on that list so it can’t be right” . The summary at the start for “Selecting a Boat for Offshore Cruising” is also good.

https://www.mahina.com/cruise.html

[LittleWing77]

Originally Posted by ilenart

The list at the end of this page is not bad, though you’ll get plenty of comments that “my boat’s not on that list so it can’t be right” . The summary at the start for “Selecting a Boat for Offshore Cruising” is also good.

https://www.mahina.com/cruise.html

The Mahina article will help.

But you just need to get out and sail. Lots of different boats.

Good luck and have fun,
LittleWing77

[sailorboy1]

Originally Posted by river251

A lot of online research has not unconfused me about how you know a sailboat is really a serious cross-ocean sailboat.

At least you managed to hold off till question #3.

What always gets lost is "how do I know I am a serious cross-ocean sailor".

Sorry if you wouldn't find this useful. But once you how this you will be able to understand and know the answer to your question.

[GILow]

Originally Posted by sailorboy1

At least you managed to hold off till question #3.

What always gets lost is "how do I know I am a serious cross-ocean sailor".

Sorry if you wouldn't find this useful. But once you how this you will be able to understand and know the answer to your question.

^^ This. ^^^

People have sailed bathtubs across oceans.

Other people have abandoned boats only to have them wash up months or even years later, perfectly intact.

The biggest variable is the soaking wet, cold and terrified idiot standing behind the wheel. Boats tend to know what they are doing without us.

[Sailmonkey]

Originally Posted by sailorboy1

At least you managed to hold off till question #3.



What always gets lost is "how do I know I am a serious cross-ocean sailor".



Sorry if you wouldn't find this useful. But once you how this you will be able to understand and know the answer to your question.

This is the crux of the matter.

We cross oceans in a 32’ boat. We’ve got friends with a 60’ boat that won’t get out of the sight of land.

[Island Time O25]

Any initially well enough built boat can be a "serious bluewater boat" provided her skipper and crew are bluewater capable. Everything else is marketing and/or personal preference.

[TrentePieds]

River:

I quote you: “A lot of online research has not unconfused me about how you know a sailboat is really a serious cross-ocean sailboat. “

No wonder. It's because you are asking the wrong question! Keep “researching” online in that manner, and you will become increasingly confused — you will defeat your own purpose.

Augmenting the thoughts already expressed by several of our experienced members, I make bold to tell you this:

The question you SHOULD be asking is something like: “How do I get to know enough about boats and sailing that I can determine for myself that 'a sailboat is really a serious cross-ocean sailboat.' ”

Boats do not take sailors across oceans. It is the other way about. Sailors that take boats across oceans! So how do you become a sailor?

You start with the basics. You take a boat, any boat, out into your local waters and you learn to handle her in your prevailing local weather. The basics I could teach you in an afternoon. Stuff like leaving and entering your marina, hoisting and striking sail, coming about, wearing, the fundamentals of the COLREGs. Then you go home and study all the things a skipper needs to know. They are far too many to list here, but ALL of them are acquired through book-learning. That is why we have Marine Academies for those who would become professional seafarers, and that is why SEA TIME is required for certification in each rank as you rise to the rank of Master. It is during the sea time that you apply and solidify what you have learned from the books. Among us Sunday sailors, the rank of “Master” is informal, of course, and a Sunday sailor in possession of “the Knowledge” may call himself a “Skipper”.

Since you are a Sunday sailor and a novice, which I respectfully presume from the way you ask your question, the best thing you can do for yourself so you may eventually become a Skipper, is to hang around here picking up on other people's posts on topics that interest you, and then making a serious study of those topics via the vast literature that is available.

You will find, as your knowledge builds, that modern factory-built “cruising” boats are essentially a commodity. There are differences among them, certainly, but those differences speak essentially to people's personal preferences. All of them are capable of crossing oceans IN THE HANDS OF A COMPETENT SKIPPER.

All the best to you

TrentePieds

[moseriw]

Asking it shows that you are not really ready for a bluewater cruiser.
I would say you should learn, learn learn and then suddenly - you know it.


Nobody shall shorten your learning curves!!!

Short:
depends on your requirements on security.

For me it is:
A GRP, Steel or Aluminium Hull with at minimum a skeg or better a well hated long keeler. GRP < 1985 with at minimum 12 mm

A Ketch or Yawl to be able to steer the boat without rudder and to have reduced squares at the main and mizzen sails to handle it at ease.

Length > 35 ft, best 45 - 50 ft.
Deck Saloon or wheelhouse.


Weigth > 15 tons
Engine > 65 hp, the more the better

AIS with Transponder, Radar, Boat data bus via WiFi to cheap laptops or tablets with OpenCPN

[TrentePieds]

River:

Following up on moseriw's post (#12), why don't you try an interesting "thought experiment"? On the basis of what you know about boats at this point in your life and about being in an environment absolutely inimical to human existence, why don't you draw up a list of specifications — of desiderata — such as you might take to a Naval Architect to have him design your "ideal blue water boat" for you, and then post that list in this thread.

That would be educational not only for yourself but also for many others hoping to "live the dream". The responses you will get to each desideratum will be many. Some will be well worth your embracing, and some will not be so. But they will all be discussed!

The object of such an exercise is that YOU will learn more quickly than by any other method what this "cruising thing" is all about. You may get some comments that will rub you the wrong way, but I can assure you that members of this forum responding to you will have YOUR interests at heart. The comments they will make will be made on the basis of their having "seen the elephant" :-)

Cheers

TrentePieds

[skipmac]

Ignoring other factors like the experience level of the captain and crew, the first step is to decide more specifically what YOU mean by a blue water boat.

There is no universally agreed upon definition of exactly what blue water is. I have seen more than a few that consider the 55 mile crossing from Ft Lauderdale to Bimini as serious blue water and just as many that think cruising the entire Caribbean is not.

Certainly crossing an ocean is blue water but are you doing a milk run or rounding the great capes in the southern ocean. The later would indicate a much "bluer" boat than the former.

[jmschmidt]

The cost a lot.