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Marathon1150 · 19-04-2023, 12:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hugh McCormack

Lots of good vessels to train your eye, and move away from the high freeboard (too much cabin-trunk) of your current choice. Patience and training your eye before you leap will be rewarded in the end.

I strongly agree with this comment - boat design is complicated and always a series of compromises. IMHO there is no single perfect boat but different sailors often own a boat that is perfect for them. We just sold a boat that was beautiful and perfect in many ways. One of the reasons that we bought it, over a Nauticat of similar size, was that it sailed incredibly well AND I could stand up everywhere inside the boat. I'm also 6"2". The Nauticat is/was attractive because we like to sail year round and as we get older, our tolerance for a wet and cold cockpit is diminishing.

We have a second boat that we sailed to the South Pacific and it has served us well and will continue to serve us well. Its not perfect but its good enough and sails well. We bought a sailboat to sail, not motor. With the right full cockpit enclosure we can simulate to a certain extent, the comfort levels of a motor sailor in cold, wet weather.

Good luck - buying a boat is a big deal and finding the exact perfect boat is a challenge.

EtienneFlavigny · 21-04-2023, 11:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marathon1150

I strongly agree with this comment - boat design is complicated and always a series of compromises. IMHO there is no single perfect boat but different sailors often own a boat that is perfect for them. We just sold a boat that was beautiful and perfect in many ways. One of the reasons that we bought it, over a Nauticat of similar size, was that it sailed incredibly well AND I could stand up everywhere inside the boat. I'm also 6"2". The Nauticat is/was attractive because we like to sail year round and as we get older, our tolerance for a wet and cold cockpit is diminishing.

We have a second boat that we sailed to the South Pacific and it has served us well and will continue to serve us well. Its not perfect but its good enough and sails well. We bought a sailboat to sail, not motor. With the right full cockpit enclosure we can simulate to a certain extent, the comfort levels of a motor sailor in cold, wet weather.

Good luck - buying a boat is a big deal and finding the exact perfect boat is a challenge.

This is good knowledge. I'll keep looking, . Thank you for this response. Fair winds!

Lee Jerry · 21-04-2023, 13:33

Quote:

One thing I don't like and it's probably just my bias is the solar vent on the bow deck. To me it's another trip hazard and a possible leak point if you bury the bow in a wave.

The vent should be removable and have a closer plate for at sea. Tightness could be questionable, though, depending on quality. A watertight deck is obviously good, but so is ventilation. I don't recall anyone ever saying they wish they had less ventilation. Just food for thought.

EtienneFlavigny · 21-04-2023, 14:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marathon1150

I strongly agree with this comment - boat design is complicated and always a series of compromises. IMHO there is no single perfect boat but different sailors often own a boat that is perfect for them. We just sold a boat that was beautiful and perfect in many ways. One of the reasons that we bought it, over a Nauticat of similar size, was that it sailed incredibly well AND I could stand up everywhere inside the boat. I'm also 6"2". The Nauticat is/was attractive because we like to sail year round and as we get older, our tolerance for a wet and cold cockpit is diminishing.

We have a second boat that we sailed to the South Pacific and it has served us well and will continue to serve us well. Its not perfect but its good enough and sails well. We bought a sailboat to sail, not motor. With the right full cockpit enclosure we can simulate to a certain extent, the comfort levels of a motor sailor in cold, wet weather.

Good luck - buying a boat is a big deal and finding the exact perfect boat is a challenge.

I actually have a few follow ups, to the Nauticat. The Albatros 33 very much reminds me of the Nauticats. How well can you get one to sail under sail? Or is it as bad as people make it out to be? How much wind do you need to go more than 4 knots? And truth be told I'm not looking for a fast boat, for me it's the journey, so if I can make 3-5 knots under sail most of the way I'd be happy. Is that realistic to expect that of a motor sailor ?

Hugh McCormack · 21-04-2023, 16:23

Just seeing the two words "motor-sailor" makes me want to hold up a big "stop" sign. The vessel you're looking at won't motor well, nor sail well. It will be slow in any mode, and that means you'll be breaking an important adage of passage-making: get to your destination quickly and efficiently so that Murphy's Law has as little time as possible to make an appearance. Up-thread I shared a link to bluewaterboats.org. I urge you to dive into that page and to buy a book or two on finding a capable cruiser. There are many.

P.S. In any book on capable cruisers, you will not find either Nauticat or Albatross mentioned.

**boatman61** · 21-04-2023, 17:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by EtienneFlavigny

I actually have a few follow ups, to the Nauticat. The Albatros 33 very much reminds me of the Nauticats. How well can you get one to sail under sail? Or is it as bad as people make it out to be? How much wind do you need to go more than 4 knots? And truth be told I'm not looking for a fast boat, for me it's the journey, so if I can make 3-5 knots under sail most of the way I'd be happy. Is that realistic to expect that of a motor sailor ?

You should easily average 100-110nm/day with good sails and the jib and jigger should drive you along nicely on beam/Broad reaches.. as I said upthread your hardship will come going upwind but that can be minimised greatly with good voyage planning.
The reason I prefer the one without the motor sailor type doghouse is the wheel and the windage, a good canvas spray hood is more than enough and a tiller is much better.
Many forget, sailing is about a slower life and good Seamanship, not trying to get from A to Z as fast as possible.. plane tickets are for that.

Oh.. and its a cutter rigged ketch

Fore and Aft · 21-04-2023, 19:00

Etienne a big factor in how any boat sails is your own ability. To sail well takes years of learning and an innate ability to know how to tweak your vessel so she performs her best. Also, good sails and a clean hull make a huge difference. I have met skippers with boats that have an average hull design at best, yet they seem to average some good speeds cruising.
Me I am more about putting the autopilot on, point in the general direction and that's good enough.
Cheers

Hugh McCormack · 21-04-2023, 19:29

[QUOTE=EtienneFlavigny;3769267]How well can you get one to sail under sail? Or is it as bad as people make it out to be?

Etienne, you've already answered your question.

Fore and Aft · 21-04-2023, 20:53

Etienne have you read this blog about a Maxi 95, John has done some serious miles in his one. Johns a really friendly guy and is good to chat with. There's one for sale near you for $155,000KR I have no idea if it's in your budget.
To be honest I can't stop looking at the Southerly 95 for $119,000KR. I love swing keels and shallow draft.
Cheers
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Cruising Caro Babbo – Caro Babbo

Bowdrie · 21-04-2023, 21:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hugh McCormack

Just seeing the two words "motor-sailor" makes me want to hold up a big "stop" sign.

That's reasonable, not fish, not fowl.
There was a time when, (actually still is,) motor sailors were quite popular.
Many were the designs of Phillip Rhodes and McGinnis that had real sailing ability.
But as in the past, they are pretty much very large and insanely expensive to build, far out of the range of the average "cruiser".
I worked on one that had a good ability to sail, but it was 120', built by Palmer Johnson.
A smaller Rhodes design from the '50s, in the trades she'll move along at a decent pace.

EtienneFlavigny · 22-04-2023, 01:30

These are solid responses, and all has been noted. The big issue with the cutter riddeg albatros is that it's only hot 5.8' headroom, and the other one the dog house can be removed. And the plan before crossing any ocean would be to increase the sail area as well as clean the Hull

**JPA Cate** · 22-04-2023, 02:03

Nothing wrong with trying to maximize the performance of a motorsailer. But, my question to you would be, do you delight in passing guys under sail, whilst they are motoring? If so, you are looking for a more performance oriented sailboat than a motor sailer. Not saying either one is better or worse, but ime, one's own sailing preferences should guide purchase plans! You might want to consider fuel requirements, arithmetically, into this picture.

We have always chosen fin keeled, good light air performers...which also saves fuel, which will be getting dearer and dearer. With the large moves to electric happening, I'd imagine in 10yrs, a motorsailer will be darned hard to sell....

Just a coupla thoughts.

Ann

**boatman61** · 22-04-2023, 04:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by EtienneFlavigny

These are solid responses, and all has been noted. The big issue with the cutter riddeg albatros is that it's only hot 5.8' headroom, and the other one the dog house can be removed. And the plan before crossing any ocean would be to increase the sail area as well as clean the Hull

Ahh.. does not mention the headroom on Scanboats.. on that size I assumed 6ft a given.
Removing the doghouse and increasing sail area involves a lot of time, money and work.. why not buy a more expensive boat that already meets your needs.

EtienneFlavigny · 22-04-2023, 04:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by JPA Cate

Nothing wrong with trying to maximize the performance of a motorsailer. But, my question to you would be, do you delight in passing guys under sail, whilst they are motoring? If so, you are looking for a more performance oriented sailboat than a motor sailer. Not saying either one is better or worse, but ime, one's own sailing preferences should guide purchase plans! You might want to consider fuel requirements, arithmetically, into this picture.

We have always chosen fin keeled, good light air performers...which also saves fuel, which will be getting dearer and dearer. With the large moves to electric happening, I'd imagine in 10yrs, a motorsailer will be darned hard to sell....

Just a coupla thoughts.

Ann

Well passing others doesn't matter to us, we want freedom, even if it's at 3 knots at a time :P
I'd like to remove the dog house on the other one. Don't need a solid dog house. I want to get a Solent rig on it, which will cost a lot of money. As for fuel, the engine will be replaced with electric in a few years

For now we need a boat we can live on, and in time turn it into a comfortable sailing vessel that can get our butts across the pond ^^