Are live-aboard's really treated this way?

[parkstone bay]

In many places, certainly in the UK, the local Council may have distinct (usually "anti-" ) views on liveaboards - I'm not justifying those views, but the marina has to operate within the terms of its licence.

[Knapweed]

I'm currently living on Vancouver Island in the PNW. I can't sing the praises of my Marina highly enough. All boats have to provide a survey less than five-years-old, current insurance with a minimum of $2,000,000 liability and environmental coverage in case of oil spillage etc.

There is a 'liveaboard' fee of $49 Canadian or about $3 US (j/k). The facilities include: heated showers and toilets, two pubs, a restaurant, free car parking, a chandler and a boatyard with slip. The owners are amazing and are very fond of liveaboards but, they are very fussy when it comes to who they allow in. It means there are no derelicts, drunken parties or crap on the docks. In fact, apart from one or two exceptions, most liveaboards sail or cruise regularly in the summer. If I go off cruising for a month or two, the owner offers to let out my slip and give me half the fee.

All berths have a huge dock box available for a token cost of five bucks a month, which mitigates the need for stowing anything on the dock and helps to keep the place tidy. Heated, lockable storage ashore is also available at a very reasonable rate but highly sought after, so there is a waiting list.

When I first arrived, there were no vacancies, so I lived out on the hook. The owners allowed me to have access to all of their facilities just for the liveaboard fee of $49/month, including car park, which I feel is above and beyond. In fact, I was only on the hook for nine days and a slip came up.

All in all, we have a wonderful and vibrant community here purely because of the attitude and actions of the owners. I'm paying less than half the fees I did in Vancouver, where the only facilities were electricity and water and a miserable owner with all the charm and charisma of a warthog with halitosis and terminal flatulence.

[fatherchronica]

The only marina we lived at that had problems like astokel mentioned, was one in Channel Islands Harbor, California where we had been relegated to a mostly commercial fishing dock. Many of them drank late, smoked methamphetamine, and one jerk cast a line into my nearly silent Eclectric D-400 wind generator, not over noise, but to be cool to his loutish buddies.

[OkiMike]

Our marina on Puget Sound is fairly nice. Extra couple of hundred for liveaboard fees and about $19/ft for the slip + utilities. Boats range from mildly derelict to pristine and people working on and cleaning them regularly. If you work a day job things are gonna break and take months/years to fix if you’re not flush with cash. Keep things relatively clean, be courteous, and show your neighbors that you care about your boat and are making progress, even if it’s never-ending.

[Skipperart]

It’s about right.
Unless you go to a mom and pop marina.
There are still a few live aboard marinas in Maryland.
Most of them are really afraid to have junk and stuff like the other posters.
I did not have a hard time living at anchor.
Annapolis, Newport, Martha’s vinard would not mind you living at anchor.

[PollyPeachum]

Originally Posted by Kenomac

It would help to know where you're located. But no, I get just the opposite attitude and treatment when I live aboard for two months of the year in a beautiful marina in Italy near Venice for only $300 per month.

Much of it does depend on how one presents themselves and the boat. When I was living aboard for four months of the year in Shoreline Village, Long Beach, CA eight years ago, you could really tell who most of the liveaboards were by all the junk on deck and the parked, beat up old vans filled with junk in the parking lot. Who wants to look at that all the time?

Still, there were some like us in our Hunter at the time, nobody would've known the difference. No junk on deck, no car filled with junk in the parking lot over night... just another boat. The marina isn't afraid of people living aboard in well-kept boats, they're afraid of having to go through the trouble to evict bums on boats and/or dealing with abandoned junk boats without working engines.

Hello Kenomac, please would you be so kind as to let us know where this miraculous marina near Venice is? Hoping to be heading that way soon. Thanks and fair winds Polly PS I totally get it if you want to keep it secret

[apirate]

We currently live in a marina which has a policy of no liveaboards. There are signs at every entrance that state it's not allowed. We've always stuck to a don't ask don't tell policy. That being said, it's pretty standard knowledge with the staff that we and some others live on our boats. We've never had an issue and I imagine as long as we continue to be clean "good-citizens" that we won't.

In many ways, the marina staff seems to like that we're there. We keep an eye on things and help as needed. I think the official rules are just there as a way to get rid of bad actors. Bringing the dock workers a bottle of rum here and there doesn't hurt either...

[Verdandi]

Definitely YES! Many marinas in the US have limits as to the percentage of boats that can be live aboard. Others simply restrict the number of days you can live aboard. On the Pacific side of Costa Rica they don't even want sailboats in the marinas and with rates as high as $100 per FOOT they don't get many! It's all about the sports fishers and big $$$ they bring. In a nutshell, "live aboard" is a bad name in many places because of "junky" boats and deadbeat owners who have given the term a bad reputation. We showed up in a beautiful 55 ft Tayana and still got treated like we were a form a trailer trash in many US marinas if we mentioned staying longer than a month or two. They want you to stop for a while and GO AWAY...keep on sailing! On the Pacific coast we just anchored everywhere, but in the US we have had to hunt around for private slips and sometimes move from marina to marina to keep on good terms. Good luck juggling as you walk that tightrope!

[chakil]

Originally Posted by Kenomac

It would help to know where you're located. But no, I get just the opposite attitude and treatment when I live aboard for two months of the year in a beautiful marina in Italy near Venice for only $300 per month.

Much of it does depend on how one presents themselves and the boat. When I was living aboard for four months of the year in Shoreline Village, Long Beach, CA eight years ago, you could really tell who most of the liveaboards were by all the junk on deck and the parked, beat up old vans filled with junk in the parking lot. Who wants to look at that all the time?

Still, there were some like us in our Hunter at the time, nobody would've known the difference. No junk on deck, no car filled with junk in the parking lot over night... just another boat. The marina isn't afraid of people living aboard in well-kept boats, they're afraid of having to go through the trouble to evict bums on boats and/or dealing with abandoned junk boats without working engines.

Hi,
Would you please tell the name of the marina, we are looking for a place around Venice.
Kind regards,

[roland stockham]

From an outside perspective, In a divided and disfunctional society all communities become less funtional so not surprised that liveaboards in the USA are getting problems. Not a country I have been to but from the news coming out it seams close toe the point of colapse socially and financially. This is maybe another example of wanting to divide and exclude anyone not 'just like them'

[Kenomac]

Originally Posted by roland stockham

From an outside perspective, In a divided and disfunctional society all communities become less funtional so not surprised that liveaboards in the USA are getting problems. Not a country I have been to but from the news coming out it seams close toe the point of colapse socially and financially. This is maybe another example of wanting to divide and exclude anyone not 'just like them'

You don't know what you're talking about. The problem has nothing to do with your gibberish, has more to do with bums living on boats and ruining it for the rest of us who choose not to live like bums on boats.

[BenBowSirocco]

Speaking specifically about marina's in the St. Petersburg/Tampa Bay area, I have to say that I can understand the no-live-aboard position.

My wife and I lived aboard for about 3 years. We lived at 2 different marina's. In both places (speaking generally from impression- which is how the staff would view it) the live aboard community was abusive of the facilities. Junk on the docks. Junk boats. Nobody ever moved- it was like a floating trailer park: Drama, drunks, garbage, and always yelling/complaining about something.

This was NOT everyone. Some live-aboard's were sailors. Kept the boats up nice, used them regularly and generally put in effort to be cordial to the marina its staff and our fellow boaters. Everyone who acted this way was passing through. Some working, some enjoying a year or two on the bay, but generally speaking cruisers who loved their boats.

The problem seemed in my opinion to be that many of the people living aboard where not boaters. Had very little experience, had never owned a boat, or even blatantly bought one they never intended to do anything with. Also, lets not forget: the squeaky wheel gets the grease. These couple loudmouthed abusers are the only ones getting notice. The only time the marina noticed us was when we came into the office to pay the bill, meanwhile they are dealing with these trouble makers on a regular basis.

One staff member asked us "Why do drive in every month to pay your bill?" when we said we live here the response was "NO kidding?!, you live here??".

I have always felt it was a shame that people have such a hard time seeing that they are part of the community at large whether they like it or not and that their actions effects the lives of others, especially those around them.

I dont blame the marina's in my area for charging extra and making rules against live-aboard's because based on my experience, they absolutely should.

The people get what they make for themselves. If you want things to change, speak out. Encourage marina's to throw out and evict the riff-raff, set a good example and try to remind the marina that you live aboard and are not causing them any hassle. Remind the live-aboards near you causing trouble that you dont like it and that it matters.

WE the cruising community need to take a stance and set a distinction between "long term transient" and "live-aboard".

[SaltyMetals]

Roland, I am not sure you have see what the thread is talking about if you hv never been to the USA. There are indeed unbelievable floating wrecks, hulls covered in weed and marine growth, decks covered with all sort of rubbish, fridges, etc. Then there are the normal sailors who have a boat that can go out to sea, they take pride in their boats. These are at opposite ends of the spectrum and it does not surprise me that some US marinas are reluctant about (homeless?) live aboards. I make a distinction here between "homeless" who no longer has a home and needs somewhere cheap to live, and those who make a conscious decision to sell up and buy a boat. What does surprise me is that some US marinas do not ask to see a copy of the boat's insurance policy. If they do not they only have themselves to blame for subsequent problems.

For Chakil,
I see Ken has not replied but think he had his boat for a few winters at St Giorgio di Nogaro but it is probably same cost at Monfalcone but i did not go there bec i dont get very enthused about sitting in an industrial cemetery.
I kept my boat for 2 winters at Certosa Marina in Venice. Not quite as cheap as Monfalcone but so much better it is hard to describe the extent my enthusiasm. Each time i went back to my boat i had friends saying "can i come too?" even though there was no intention of sailing. Good boatyard as well for whatever work you need. New crane for up to 80 tonne liftout.
Andrew

[roland stockham]

Originally Posted by Kenomac

You don't know what you're talking about. The problem has nothing to do with your gibberish, has more to do with bums living on boats and ruining it for the rest of us who choose not to live like bums on boats.

Thanks for such a polite response. It is perfectly true that I have no first hand information on this having never visited a marina in the USA. As I stated this is a perspective from outside based on news reports. I though some people may be interested in what could be a wider perspective to the issue. It may of course be that then US media, international media and the academic community are miss-reporting what is going on and giving a distorted view. Some commentators certainly seem to think that is the case.

[roland stockham]

Originally Posted by SaltyMetals

Roland, I am not sure you have see what the thread is talking about if you hv never been to the USA. There are indeed unbelievable floating wrecks, hulls covered in weed and marine growth, decks covered with all sort of rubbish, fridges, etc. Then there are the normal sailors who have a boat that can go out to sea, they take pride in their boats. These are at opposite ends of the spectrum and it does not surprise me that some US marinas are reluctant about (homeless?) live aboards. I make a distinction here between "homeless" who no longer has a home and needs somewhere cheap to live, and those who make a conscious decision to sell up and buy a boat. What does surprise me is that some US marinas do not ask to see a copy of the boat's insurance policy. If they do not they only have themselves to blame for subsequent problems.

No I have not seen those problems in the USA although they do crop up in other places and get us a bed rep! Seems to be becoming a major problem in parts of the USA however and I was simply wondering if it may be significantly related to the wider problems happening there. Possibly my post came over as to 'anti USA', it was not intended to, Most of the Americans I have met seemed like good people and I have a lot of sympathy for the current problems.