Are Liveaboards Unwanted? Disliked? All over Everywhere?

[ruby tuesday]

given what i've read about the issues you've got I am very surprised that the authorities haven't done what they did here and build a wind farm roughly 5 miles square right in front of the two most problematic towns on the north wales coast.

we used to be able to dry out on the beach (i had a twin fin) and then go into the towns do whatever it is that they needed to do including go t owork etc... and then go back to their boats afterwards - there were only ever a dozen or so boats there and all were more than seaworthy and all in top shape and no louts and loud music and we generally left everyone alone but we used the stores and the other facilities that the town had and we all spent our money in those towns.

then they built the windfarm - the result was that no one could go there - can't really use the beach except for maybe a spring tide which doesn't help anyone and the money we spent and the few passing boats spent - i'm sure helped quite a few businesses out. we didn't pay for where we were - but in other ways we did pay cos we all paid taxes, we all paid duties on the goods we bought - those that used public transport paid for it. the one remaining place is just full of junkyard worthy ex fishing boats and there are no cruisers - very few new or newish boats - the marinas can't charge mega bucks cos the people wouldnt pay it and those boats that are in the marina i'm pretty sure don't move year after year.

the interesting thing is that when the wind blows like it does here - the turbines can't turn cos the wind is too strong - now forgive me but isn't a wind turbine supposed to work when it's windy ????? answers on a postcode for that one - oh and the government subsidises all the wind turbines that have taken our anchorages and stolen our seascapes --- it's just a mess. i'm surprised that california hasn't already done this and put lots of wind turbines in places where they don't want boats. the government also did it in liverpool bay where people used to drop a hook and then use the local services and stores -- now the authorities want everyone to use the extremely expensive marinas which by the way can only be accessed at spring tide or very high tides --- in other maybe once a month you can get in/out of a marina - if you're lucky. as for living aboard its heavily frowned upon - you get a few but not many. the anchorages and beaches for drying out have been filled with turbines and other places that haven't got turbines got a total ban on vessels lying up on them -- at low tide the water mark can be 1 or 2 miles away from the towns

[GordMay]

Greetings and welcome aboard the CF, OldBuzzard.

[BandB]

Originally Posted by 1oldbuzzard

I am a new member planning on cruising Florida this winter. I confess that I did not read EVERY posting yet but enough to get the gist of it. Florida has issues.....

This can be debated until lake Okechobee freezes over but I would like to make a suggestion. Either here or starting a separate thread we start compiling a database of places that are receptive to us or unfriendly. Also a list of anchorages we can go to and a list of those to avoid.

.

I'm just amazed. The most boater friendly state there is and you declare it has issues. More facilities for boaters than any other state in the country. And you say "receptive to us". Who is us? The thread is about liveaboards but you sound like you'll be cruising through? And you want to start listing and videoing water police? Why not land police too? Why not everyone in the world you encounter who doesn't do things exactly to your liking. If you approach Florida or boating or anything else with the starting attitude and feelings you've expressed in this one post, then you will encounter issues. It's a self fulfilling prophecy. I'd strongly suggest rethinking it and going in with better expectations.

[oldragbaggers]

Originally Posted by 1oldbuzzard

greetings fellow cruisers,

I am a new member planning on cruising Florida this winter. I confess that I did not read EVERY posting yet but enough to get the gist of it. Florida has issues.....

This can be debated until lake Okechobee freezes over but I would like to make a suggestion. Either here or starting a separate thread we start compiling a database of places that are receptive to us or unfriendly. Also a list of anchorages we can go to and a list of those to avoid.

I think such a database already exists. It is ActiveCaptain.

And I agree with BandB that your characterization of Florida may be a bit off. We have had contact with a number of marinas in Florida openly requesting information on living aboard and in every case have been greeted with positive responses. Let's not look for trouble where it doesn't exist.

[a64pilot]

Just remember there are TWO Florida's.
North Fl and the Panhandle are a completely different world than S Fl.

[BlueMaxx]

I love the Old Florida area....Indian Pass area. St. George Island I have to say changed my direction in life.
Vacationed there and was just blown away at the beauty and the nice folks and great food!
It was my first choice when I started to think about planning on living aboard.

[geoleo]

Liveaboards are wanted if they have the space and you have the money!

[1oldbuzzard]

Thanks, Gordmay, I like your avitar. Looks just like me.



Well. it appears that I stirred up a hornets nest. Or more correctly jumped into one already cooking. There seems to be a real battle about anchoring and the mooring fields, etc. Different rules in different places, varied attitudes and inforcement......

I think one of my big worries is showing up somewhere only to have the mooring field full and nowhere to go for the night.

I have just started reading about places that are hostile to anchoring and really want to do my best not to get into trouble with any local authorities. Can't afford the fines on an SS budget. And yes, I will be cruising. A liveaboard cruising. So when everyone is done chastising me I found in my reading that this anchoring is a hot issue and I just want to avoid places I am not wanted. That's all.

a64pilot: I am just learning about the differences in different parts of Florida. I draw 4.5' and hope to be able to visit along the great curve.

Oldragbaggers: Thanks for the info. We will use marinas when we can and certainly to pump out. (i don't even have a Y valve) couldn't pump overboard if I wanted to. And of course we will need groceries, etc.

I will look into Active Captain. Thanks. That is the kind of information I am looking for. Appreciated.

Blumax: Thanks for the info I will look into Indian Pass and St. George Island. More good info.

Thanks everyone.

[duefocena]

Here in Dana Point there was a small number of "anchored out liveaboards". There is a wait list as much as 10 years here for a slip and 35' is the minimum length for "allowed " liveaboard in the harbor with a 40% surcharge. The harbor department came one day and extended the harbor entrance buoys so that safe anchorage area was no longer available to the free liveaboards/anchored outters. The other side is that these boats often were abandoned, improper ground tackle, very unsavory inhabitants that used everything "free" in the harbor and had begun to be a hazard to navigation. Unfortunately living "free" on a hook, using a harbors resources for sustenance, requires rules. Most who are looking for the free lifestyle detest rules and feel it is a right to anchor and live without the trappings of society. I don't know what the answer is but there must be a compromise somewhere. On land, living free was called "homesteading" but even then there were certain requirements to qualify for the grant of land.

[Hudson Force]

Originally Posted by 1oldbuzzard

....................
...........we start compiling a database of places that are receptive to us or unfriendly. Also a list of anchorages we can go to and a list of those to avoid. ........................

A great problem with this plan becomes apparent to me when I notice that most places where people describe difficulties with authorities when anchoring are the same places where I anchor frequently and am never approached or questioned by an authority.

[sailorboy1]

Originally Posted by Hudson Force

A great problem with this plan becomes apparent to me when I notice that most places where people describe difficulties with authorities when anchoring are the same places where I anchor frequently and am never approached or questioned by an authority.

You've been here a while I'm sure you have noticed that the same boaters have "difficulties" over and over


Sent from my iPhone using Cruisers Sailing Forum

[Hudson Force]

Originally Posted by sailorboy1

You've been here a while I'm sure you have noticed that the same boaters have "difficulties" over and over


Sent from my iPhone using Cruisers Sailing Forum

I'm sure you've hit upon something with this thought.

I've known some people who have repeated difficulties with airline services and others that rarely get good service in a restaurant. I don't believe that they just happen to be people that are unfairly treated. More likely they are insisting upon big volume carry-on luggage or unable to tolerate varieties in meat color or egg white viscosity!

I suspect that there are behaviors that set up some liveaboard cruisers as "targets" to be approched by marine authorities. Maybe even some things more subtle than an improper anchor light or an oil slick around the boat.

[JPA Cate]

Hudson,

Are you sure there's that clear a profile? Wow!

Ann

[Hudson Force]

Originally Posted by Ann T. Cate

Hudson,

Are you sure there's that clear a profile? Wow!

Ann

No, I'm not sure at all and my speculation is only from my experiences limited to the southeast USA.

For years I've heard of people complaining of difficulties with local authorities and their anchoring opportuities in specific places in Florida such as, Gulfport, Sarasota, Marco Island, The Keys, Miami, Ft. Lauderdale, Stuart, St. Augustine, etc. For over forty years I've continued to cruise through these areas and anchor. To date, I've never been approached or questioned by any authority regarding anchoring.

Is this due to my timing, specific location, registration or home port, appearance or vessel condition, coincidental luck? .... I can only guess. I don't know the answer!

[Wrong]

Originally Posted by sailorchic34

Oh your right. Though I figure that after a few years of a managed anchorage, I could see a user fee being added for the long term folk. I wonder how many will choose a mooring ball.

Since other than grandfathered, properly permitted private moorings will not be allowed anywhere in Richardson Bay, folks will have to decide how they're going to survive the winter storms. Those who expect to avoid dragging on an anchor will have to have more than the minimum 5 to 1 scope in all chain and suitably sized primary and secondary anchor required by the RBRA. They'll also need to develop anchoring skills, pass an inspection and obtain a permit if anchoring more than 72 hours. They'll also have to re-anchor every 15 days... Not everyone is going to want to accept the anchoring rules or play russian roulette in the winter. While a storm contingency plan may allow access to empty marina slips during a storm, and boaters may up anchor to fetch a sheltered anchorage, there are those who will want the permanence and security a mooring provides. Some may alternate between a mooring in the winter and anchorage in the summer. Only problem with this plan is whether or not empty moorings will be available in the winter...

BTW as a Blonde it is my right to misrepresent things. It's practically required.

I also wonder what they will consider an appropriate anchor and rode combination.

Last couple of times I stopped by the fuel dock, Noonish, both times, your wash boards were up, so I figured you were elsewhere.

But your right. You could be cruising when I'm not visiting Sausalito, which is after all not that often.