Are Liveaboards Unwanted? Disliked? All over Everywhere?

[sailorchic34]

Originally Posted by valhalla360

No puzzlement. My experience is the respectable self sufficent liveaboards don't like the bums making them look bad (assuming you aren't using "respectable" as some implied qualifer)

Ah I'm starting to understand the issue here. See I never think about the "Bums" making me look bad. I mean most can't even sail and don't even anchor very well.

But I can see that could be a concern for some. It's sometimes hard for the land folk to distinguish between a boat bum and a full time cruiser. To them, anyone living on a boat is a bum. Well unless you have paid crew. Then your a bit more respectable.

Sort of like driving down the road in a 2015 hummer and having to drive next to or park by a 68 VW microbus with camping gear on it. That might be horrible too.

So it must be an image thing. That I can understand.

Myself, I might have a bit too much compassion for the fellow on the bum boat. It's a failing I know. Maybe I need to watch fox news more. Oh wait, I don't even own a TV.

I guess we could kick all the bums off the water (myself included as I have bum like tendencies and am one of those crazed liberals) and hand each a cardboard box to go live in under an overpass. I mean that's really what people are saying needs to be done.

[Island Time O25]

Originally Posted by sailorchic34

Ah I'm starting to understand the issue here. See I never think about the "Bums" making me look bad. I mean most can't even sail and don't even anchor very well.

But I can see that could be a concern for some. It's sometimes hard for the land folk to distinguish between a boat bum and a full time cruiser. To them, anyone living on a boat is a bum. Well unless you have paid crew. Then your a bit more respectable.

Sort of like driving down the road in a 2015 hummer and having to drive next to or park by a 68 VW microbus with camping gear on it. That might be horrible too.

So it must be an image thing. That I can understand.

Myself, I might have a bit too much compassion for the fellow on the bum boat. It's a failing I know. Maybe I need to watch fox news more. Oh wait, I don't even own a TV.

I guess we could kick all the bums off the water (myself included as I have bum like tendencies and am one of those crazed liberals) and hand each a cardboard box to go live in under an overpass. I mean that's really what people are saying needs to be done.

That's have been a general tendency of the monied classes in US by hook or by crook to push out "undesirables" from whatever area is being gentrified. Now they come for the boat "bums". Those of us who fancy ourselves not to be a part of the "bums class" - be forewarned as you make be next to qualify as such. Afterall if you don't pay exhorbirant property taxes yet get even a better water view than the rich landlubber next door, so you too must be suspect in their eyes as a moocher of "their" water views and tax supported services.

BTW my bigest political fantasy is if US will switch over to European property tax model where current property tax is based only as a percentage of the price paid by the owner and not on some made up number conveniently misnamed "market value". Why misnamed? B/c by definition in order to establish a true market value there must be a willing seller and a willing buyer. But unless a particular property is for sale or actually sold there cannot be a "willing seller" thus any "market value" assignment by the town or county is not and can never be a true "market" value of the property at that time. That change alone would go a long way in protecting any area, including the waterfront, from the real estate sharks and developers as long time residents would not be forced to sell due to their inability to pay the property taxes (most common reason for those on fixed income to sell their mortgage free house). And just may be, some of those "bums" would never need to liveaboard if they could afford their old houses.

[Stu Jackson]

Originally Posted by Island Time O25

BTW my bigest political fantasy is if US will switch over to European property tax model where current property tax is based only as a percentage of the price paid by the owner and not on some made up number conveniently misnamed "market value". Why misnamed? B/c by definition in order to establish a true market value there must be a willing seller and a willing buyer. But unless a particular property is for sale or actually sold there cannot be a "willing seller" thus any "market value" assignment by the town or county is not and can never be a true "market" value of the property at that time. That change alone would go a long way in protecting any area, including the waterfront, from the real estate sharks and developers as long time residents would not be forced to sell due to their inability to pay the property taxes (most common reason for those on fixed income to sell their mortgage free house). And just may be, some of those "bums" would never need to liveaboard if they could afford their old houses.

California did just that years ago. It's called Prop 13. Google it. The deal? Property taxes don't get raised until the house is sold.

There are two schools of thought on the concept:

1. Your last sentences, where us old geezers get to keep our houses 'cuz the property values do not go up. That was a very good thing, especially with the squeezing of the middle class.

2. It eviscerated public education and the general fund because tax revenues fell in a BIG TIME way.

There's a middle ground, too, 'cuz commercial real estate was covered, too, and instead of paying when property changed hands, the "greedy corporations" found loopholes and didn't pay. There is a movement afoot to change that, but it appears it won't happen. Can you even begin to guess why?

I agree, arbitrary "values" are a slippery slope, but beware the unforeseen consequences, too.

[Kenomac]

Originally Posted by sailorchic34

I guess we could kick all the bums off the water (myself included as I have bum like tendencies and am one of those crazed liberals).

Sailorchic34,

Please tell me you're not living there with ten cats..... :-)

Can you please read my diesel soot thread and make a recommendation? You da expert.

Ken

[Kenomac]

Originally Posted by Island Time O25

That's have been a general tendency of the monied classes in US by hook or by crook to push out "undesirables" from whatever area is being gentrified. Now they come for the boat "bums". Those of us who fancy ourselves not to be a part of the "bums class" - be forewarned as you make be next to qualify as such.

Nope, the bums on boats thing seems to be a US thing. I really haven't seen this fenom anywhere else. Here in the Med, people seem to take some pride in their boat ownership. Over the past four years, I have yet to see even one derelect boat like the ones in Richardson Bay or the ones off Dana Point... You know... The ones owned by the moochers who come ashore to use their EBT cards and dump their trash.

No EBT or Obama phones here in da Med. I'm actally surprised one of those Richardson Bay bum boats hasn't blown up yet from having been used as a meth lab.

"Undesirables" my buttocks... Those knuckleheads have more vacation time than I do. They're on vacation 24/7/365 with full benefits.

[Terra Nova]

Too many people worrying about what others are doing or "getting away with" instead of minding their own damned business.

[sailorchic34]

Originally Posted by Kenomac

"Undesirables" my buttocks... Those knuckleheads have more vacation time than I do. They're on vacation 24/7/365 with full benefits.

But that is the key to happyness. Being on vacation 24/7. I've turned my week around. I work a few hours a week and take the rest of the time off. It's a whole lot nicer then the other way most folks do.

I only have one cat, but I am a card carrying crazy cat lady.

On your sooty engine. if the valves are adjusted and in spec, injectors cleaned, air filter and fuel filters cleaned and your injector timing is spot on (which it should be), then my only other thought would be to check the prop is not fouled a bit. Oh, Also check your discharge elbow for blockage. A bit too much back pressure might cause that as the engine would get a bit less air.

Other thing it could be is a governor spring a tiny bit out of spec. That would cause the soot too.

The good news is a little soot will not hurt at all, from an engine running standpoint.

[Kenomac]

Sailorchic,

When I refer to the 24/7/365 crowd, I mean the ones who are living off your dime and mine without a care in the world... Those are the boat bums.... Not you.

Doesn't really bother me much anymore since I now live six months of the year on the other side of the planet in paradise, but I do find the US problems and news to be amusing.... especially at how one sided and divided the entire American mindset has become. It's almost too easy to stir the pot a little with the obvious. Everyone is so easily "offended.". It's almost as funny as watching Monty Python... the "Silly Walks" skit comes to mind. Watch it on youtube sometime. The welfare crap does get to me somewhat when I'm back home in Whoville, Massachusetts surrounded by the intercity B.S. and crime the deadbeats produce. Had a drive by shooting thirty feet from my kitchen window one week before I departed for Italy. The local heroin drug gang pumped 7 bullets into my neighbors house.... it didnt even make the local news! in fact the mayor insists crime is down. The local cops spent the morning in my basement reviewing the surveillance videos... But I guess it didn't really happen, if it wasn't on TV. Like you... I don't have a TV other than the closed circuit TV. I actually thought the shooting was my wife in the next room banging a jar on the counter top, so I didn't even bother to get up and rack my bedside AK47.

Life is soooo different over here compared to the US. I can certainly wait to get back.

My wife's a catwoman.... God help me. Kind of like a catwoman and Annie Oakley combined.

Thanks for the expert diesel advice.

Ken

[jkindredpdx]

Originally Posted by sailorchic34

Ah I'm starting to understand the issue here. See I never think about the "Bums" making me look bad. I mean most can't even sail and don't even anchor very well.

But I can see that could be a concern for some. It's sometimes hard for the land folk to distinguish between a boat bum and a full time cruiser. To them, anyone living on a boat is a bum. Well unless you have paid crew. Then your a bit more respectable.

Sort of like driving down the road in a 2015 hummer and having to drive next to or park by a 68 VW microbus with camping gear on it. That might be horrible too.

So it must be an image thing. That I can understand.

Myself, I might have a bit too much compassion for the fellow on the bum boat. It's a failing I know. Maybe I need to watch fox news more. Oh wait, I don't even own a TV.

I guess we could kick all the bums off the water (myself included as I have bum like tendencies and am one of those crazed liberals) and hand each a cardboard box to go live in under an overpass. I mean that's really what people are saying needs to be done.

One would have difficulty distinguishing between a "bum" and me often, especially when I'm working on the boat. I clean up a bit for my work gigs, but even there I'm finding it hard to put on the mask anymore. But then again I clearly live on a boat, not a yacht.

[Kenomac]

Originally Posted by jkindredpdx

One would have difficulty distinguishing between a "bum" and me often, especially when I'm working on the boat. I clean up a bit for my work gigs, but even there I'm finding it hard to put on the mask anymore. But then again I clearly live on a boat, not a yacht.

It would be easy to distinguish you from a bum. You're working on your yacht.... Whereas, the bum is "busy" checking his EBT balance via his Obamaphone and can't be bothered to shovel the two feet of bird $hit off the deck of his crib.

[RainDog]

Originally Posted by sailorchic34

Myself, I might have a bit too much compassion for the fellow on the bum boat. It's a failing I know. Maybe I need to watch fox news more. Oh wait, I don't even own a TV.

I guess we could kick all the bums off the water (myself included as I have bum like tendencies and am one of those crazed liberals) and hand each a cardboard box to go live in under an overpass. I mean that's really what people are saying needs to be done.

You need to learn how to cultivate anger. First think of all your problems. Then practice thinking everyone around you has it easy. Then pretend the people around you are getting thousands of dollars of "welfare". The final step is to conbine them by blaming all your problems on these imaginary welfare recipients who have it so easy. This process is apparently called "personal responsibility." I think it got that name because the "bums" are personally responsible for all your problems.

[ruby tuesday]

i can't believe what i'm reading in this thread sometimes cos the rules in the UK are so much different like if you live on a boat you can't claim benefits for your boat like you can with a house and the council don't pay your taxes for you like they do for a house and out of work benefits are paid at a reduced level cos you live on an expensive boat thats seen as a toy cos its not a house and therefore you can sell it make some money and then go and live in a proper house.

bit backward if you ask me but hell it's one reason why there are so few liveaboards and also part of the reason why 90% of the boats in marinas are sparkly

and the rules surrounding where you can and can't sling a hook are even more stringent here cos of all the shipping lanes and wind turbines !!!!!

the only people that own boats in my part of the world have money to back it up --- marine mortgages require a 60%+ deposit and cos of the locations of the towns along the coast there's no where to anchor out or tie up without using an expensive marina.

in short if you got money then you can have the boat. there are boats going cheap but not the $1000 dollar ones you're talking about - i'd say that minimum prices are around £2k for an 18footer and certainly nothing more --- everything in the UK is very expensive

[weavis]

Originally Posted by Kenomac

It would be easy to distinguish you from a bum. You're working on your yacht.... Whereas, the bum is "busy" checking his EBT balance via his Obamaphone and can't be bothered to shovel the two feet of bird $hit off the deck of his crib.

Lol. Take a chill pill Ken.

As long as what the person is doing is legal, your objections mean Jack. No seriously, I mean it. The government choose this way of dealing with the problem, and how the people choose to live is............ their concern.

Moral indignation is usually based around money, and from people with money.

I have no answers to the situation. If I had less money, I may choose to live on a boat and still be happy.

If I had no money, I may choose to live on a boat and try to survive. I may be ground down by life and by the real thieves of the world who run the money system, and I might lose interest in doing things that people with pride and hope have.

People are people. Some are better than others. Some have no intention of doing anything. A few of my neighbours are like that.

You cannot walk in any town in the UK and fail to miss the volume of 16 year old mothers pushing prams who will never work in their lives and yet have money from the State.

You should be grateful that you have the ability to work mentally and physically and strived to achieve something. But for goodness sake dont lump everyone together and collectively look down on them.

Richard Branson head of Virgin admits he stole money to get started. That makes him no different to anyone else. He is admired as being a great businessman instead of a thief. But without thieving, he would have been nothing.

What a weird world when people are the most expendable commodity and money comes first.

[sailorchic34]

Originally Posted by RainDog

You need to learn how to cultivate anger. First think of all your problems. Then practice thinking everyone around you has it easy. Then pretend the people around you are getting thousands of dollars of "welfare". The final step is to conbine them by blaming all your problems on these imaginary welfare recipients who have it so easy. This process is apparently called "personal responsibility." I think it got that name because the "bums" are personally responsible for all your problems.

Ah there it is. I don't have any problems, none, zip, nada.. Actually Compared to all my friends, I have the easy life. Just back from a swim around the boat and I'll do a few hours of work today to pay for my low impact lifestyle.

Mind you, I'm quite happy that everyone else is working a 9 to 5 job to pay for the mortgage, car, cable, $600 smart phones, etc,etc. (Hint: if smart is in the name, it ain't that smart.) I'm still trying to figure out how a phone costs 2 to 3 times what a 7" table costs. Somebody's making a profit being smart.

Gee if everyone else did as I did, I'd have to move to the mountains.

The trick I think is to be happy with what you have and to just enjoy all that life brings you.

[weavis]

Originally Posted by sailorchic34

$600 smart phones, etc,etc. (Hint: if smart is in the name, it ain't that smart.)

I needed a dual sim card phone. Let me rephrase that, I desired to have one because was tired of swapping cards.

I paid $70 for a Chinese Doogee. Does everything that $600 phone does and perhaps more. Battery lasts 2 days if being used hard and will go 5 days on standby.

I will not pay $600 for a phone. That would not be smart.

I like it. It does what I want. You can even use it as a phone!

Amazing that.