Blue Water Cruiser - What size

[andrei_ca]

Btw, keep on suggesting models. If they have the aft area open for berths/storage, it's definitely something I wanna look at - if I could break in there and glass it/ modify it, that should work too. This experienced dude for eg, told me that, A30 could be opened and modified like that. It doesn't have to be a neat racer like F3; some spacy, fat cruiser that goes from A to B works as well.

Andrei

[carstenb]

Originally Posted by andrei_ca

Btw, keep on suggesting models. If they have the aft area open for berths/storage, it's definitely something I wanna look at - if I could break in there and glass it/ modify it, that should work too. This experienced dude for eg, told me that, A30 could be opened and modified like that. It doesn't have to be a neat racer like F3; some spacy, fat cruiser that goes from A to B works as well.

Andrei

I don't doubt that you are a good researcher. Serious modificaton of the structural aspects of a boat is really serious business. The stress created by the torsion and twisting of a boat in the open sea is not to be discounted. I wouldn't do major strutural changes without consulting at least a couple of truly professional boat builders/architechs.

There are some people on this forum who are truly knowledgeable and could help you. Ask around.

[Kim Gregory]

Andrei,
Take a look at the Douglas 32 for sale on kijiji in Trenton for $2900.
NEW PRICE!!! Douglas 32, Yanmar 3GM30 Inboard Diesel | sailboats | Trenton | Kijiji

Similar to the Alberg 30, but bigger. My wife and I lived on one for 5 years in Port Credit Harbour (Mississauga), and sailed it to the Bahamas and back.

Owners Group Site:
https://sites.google.com/site/douglasownersgroup/

There were some live-a-boards in Toronto, at Ontario Place. Take a walk around the harbour front in the next couple of weeks before all the clubs launch their boats. I know a friend that is living in his CS33 in Bluffers Park in Scarborough. Our Mimico Cruising Club has 10 this year, and with our new dock power upgrade, will be able to have more next year. The costs are more like $7000 a year.
- Kim

[andrei_ca]

Thanks for the heads up Kim. Looks like a decent DYI option.

Andrei

[hamburking]

Originally Posted by andrei_ca

After some more discussion and reading, I might have to agree with those that suggested I go with what I can afford and get experience from there instead of going crazy with my first boat.

You posted some intelligent words!

Your initial post basically asked for a go-any-ocean bluewater boat that would be a spacious live-aboard and priced under $15k....LOL isn't that what everyone wants?

You were right to do some broad research to start...sailing is a huge topic with too many sub-categories...from RC lasers to tall ships...there is always more to learn.

However, you seem to have started down a realistic path...which is...see whats available locally. If you want to keep your initial costs down you need to buy locally. That would ideally be Toronto, or maybe you are comfortable buying anywhere on Lake Ontario...or maybe even any Great Lake and even the Hudson River?

I'd also like to suggest you take a cruise with Toronto Brigantine. Although their focus is sail training for youth, I believe they do offer short adult courses/cruises. The practical experience would really help you, and you would be surrounded by like minded individuals. http://www.torontobrigantine.org/

As for particular models...the trouble you face in Toronto is that most of the boats there are racer/cruisers with emphasis on racing. Fin keeled, lightweight, with huge sails. You likely already know this, but Toronto gets NO WIND. If will be hard to find a bluewater boat there. And Atomic 4's are going to be the engine on most of the (cheap) boats for sale there. Good engine for getting in and out of the harbour...but if you actually plan to go someplace (even up the lake) you should get a diesel, and it'll cost you.

Anyway, as I said in a previous post, the ugly Pearson 30 would suit you well, if you can find one with a diesel and can stand the decor below. The smaller C&C's are great sailing boats, well built, but most have a terrible layout below for living aboard.

And finally...if you find something up at my end of the lake, I'd be happy to check it out for you, take additional pictures, and maybe even help with the delivery to Toronto. You'll find there are several CF members on Lake Ontario...and they are a great resource.

[andrei_ca]

Kind of you to offer some help . I'll keep that in mind.

Cheers mate,

Andrei

[hamburking]

Here are some new ads:

1976 Irwin 33 MKll | sailboats | Kingston | Kijiji

Beautiful Ericson 35 Sailboat | sailboats | City of Toronto | Kijiji

"30' Albin Scampi For Sale - $4000!!!" | sailboats | City of Toronto | Kijiji

Endeavour 32 family cruiser - owner has upgraded, must sell! | sailboats | City of Toronto | Kijiji

$5000 cdn...hard to believe!
Classic Full Keel Alberg 30 | sailboats | Ottawa | Kijiji

[andrei_ca]

A30 deal is impressive - I'm rather torn about what to do.

Are these kind of deals happening once in a while or they're extremely rare?

Andrei

[Bleemus]

"You have no clue where where I'm going with this, so keep your experience and opinions to yourself."

Okay.

[hamburking]

Originally Posted by andrei_ca

A30 deal is impressive - I'm rather torn about what to do.

Are these kind of deals happening once in a while or they're extremely rare?

Extremely rare!

However, as the "fleet" gets older, these deals do seem to come up a bit more often. Usually there is some reason the boat is very cheap. Personally, I look for boats that are just filthy or ugly. I was offered a pretty nice boat for free a few years ago...with a broken diesel...I was 4th on the list, nobody wants a boat that may cost more to repair than the vessel is worth.

Personally, I don't think you'll be happy on an A30 as a live-aboard...its a really small 30. You might have more space on a C&C27. A Catalina 30 would be twice as big. The feature of the A30 is its ability to cross oceans. I dislike its narrow beam, which makes it "tippy" (whats the opposite of "stiff"?).

Regarding that particular A30: In the engine picture I can see gate valves. Those should be replaced with ball valves. I don't know how they can get insurance the way it is? Its a 1966...thats over 50 years old...wow...did you notice the "wallpaper" on the bulhead? Whats that about? And finally, electric motor...to most people, thats like having no motor at all. Personally, I love it...electric is awesome! And its in Ottawa. Thats another reason for the low price. Can you even hold one tack for 5 minutes on the Ottawa river? Tell me its not like sailing in a bathtub? However...with the mast down, you could go down the rideau canal to Kingston, mast up, and sail the rest of the way (upwiind) to T.O. A pretty easy/safe trip. Although...I wonder how you'd have enough volts for all that canal motoring? I suppose you could truck it in a single day...about $1000. How do I know the price...easy...everything on a boat costs a thousand bucks...am I wrong?...anyone????

[andrei_ca]

Originally Posted by Bleemus

"You have no clue where where I'm going with this, so keep your experience and opinions to yourself."

Okay.

Only where electric conversion is concerned, in this topic only mate. It's all for keeping discussions organized and fairly focused. Electric motors is not the point of this topic and it would be a waste of time because I'm using fringe elements. I don't wanna hear on solar pannels, acid batteries or expensive stuff like LiFePo4 because it's got nothing to do with it.

________

Hamburking, I wrote them anyway to see what reply I get. Personally I feel I shouldn't be hot headed and buy on impulse - generally speaking. If I keep the boat's original structure, I know 100% I can recondition, I've employed one skill or another in my life - so aspect doesn't bother me that much if the boat can be made shiny and sound again. I don't mind the electric motor thing, they could put in rowing monkeys for all I care. If I can get it in a Toronto marina, or at the storage place, I'm set.

I also wanna give it some time to test that energy system and to see its actual volume per kw. Might turn out that it has a bit of volume, but the advantages are beyond great. I'll have to wait another month to get some parts from somewhere in Asia. So, I'm thinking patience and easy does it.

Andrei

[TrentePieds]

Quote "whats the opposite of "stiff"?"

Depends on context - in the present one, let's go for "tender" ;-)

TrentePieds

[andrei_ca]

Forgiving?

Andrei

[Dymaxion]

Despite your obvious self confidence, well deserved or not, you haven't pulled the trigger on any of several boats that have been suggested to you. Sailboatdata website will show you the layout of most listed. As a well founded naval architect you will be able to deduce where all bulkheads lie in each boat, and where they can be moved to. As an experienced marine/structural engineer with extensive composites fabrication knowledge, this will be a snap. At that point you can install your self-designed vertical axis wind turbine and paddle wheel drive and sail confidently dead upwind in water so shallow you can snatch the clams off the bottom as you go by. Living the dream baby. Good luck, better get back to your reading now.

[TrentePieds]

Re #43:

Does the name "Dale Carnegie" ring any bells?

TrentePieds