Boat costs? 39' (12 m)compared to 49' (15m)?

[Skipper-Ingo]

Hello from Germany,
Time has come. Got my live insurance money to buy a boat. I will retire within a feew months and will be a live-aboard until I kick the bucket. Before my wife is gonna join me (she has to work some longer), I want to make some money for about 3-4 years by offering cruises on my boat ("Kojen-Charter" berth-chartering"that's what we call it in Germany)
I have to make a decision what size of boat to buy.
For offering cruises, it would be good to have 4 cabins and a
49 feet boat. For my wife and me (and some friends once in a while), 3 cabins would be enough. 39 feet is OK.t

What I want to know is, what do you really think would be the difference in maintenance cost over the years for a boat of 39 feet (12 m) compared to one with 49 (15 m)? Simply described in percentage.

I read that the difference would be extreme, and that it would cost probably double for the bigger boat.
You should know that I have bought mooring rights in a port in Spain already, which allows me to place a boat there for up to 49 feet. So living aboard there would not make much of a difference there, whatever size. But what about the other costs. Maintainance, harbor fees, and so on?

I got good sailing experience even as a single hand sailor. Currently I own a boat together with some fellows, but we are going to split and sell the boat and I will buy another boat alone.

You would be helping me much in my decision about what size to get. If you give me a clew about what you think or experienced. Does a 49er cost that much more than a 39er?
Thanks for any advice and comments
Greetings from Germany.
Ingo

[DeepCut]

You want o make money for a couple of years WITH A BOAT???

"How do you make a small fortune in boating business?" Answer: "Start with a LARGE fortune".

[Zanshin]

I've had monohull boats from 43 feet to 57 feet and believe that the costs don't rise "exponentially to the length" as is often said. Especially for Kojencharter and later on, the difference in space between a 39 and a 49 is *HUGE* and I'd opt for the larger boat every time. Much of the costs in a sailboat are not in the parts but in the labor, and if you do work yourself then costs are a lot less.

[Mystic38]

i would go with 75%-100% more..

twice the bottom paint, sails are twice the size, more gear, bigger gear, longer lines, more fuel, bigger slips, etc etc..

yup, if it was me...i would expect and budget for double and then be relieved if it was less.

but if you have the money, do it.. 10ft more is twice the interior volume.

[StuM]

Originally Posted by DeepCut

You want o make money for a couple of years WITH A BOAT???

"How do you make a small fortune in boating business?" Answer: "Start with a LARGE fortune".

Make money with a boat?

Make more money with a boat that it costs to make that money (i.e. generate net income) ?

[StuM]

A boat is a three dimensional object so the volume etc increase as the cube of the length.

12 x 12 x 12 = 1728 m3
15 x 15 x 15 = 3375 m3

So a 15m boat is indeed twice the size of a 12 m boat.

And as Mystic38 says, everything on it is much larger, heavier and more expensive.
(sails, standing and running rigging, deck hardware, engines etc, etc)

[hoppy]

I just checked the sails prices for a 39 & 50 footer yachts and they were about 50% more expensive for the bigger yacht. That was roughly the case whether it was a dacron crosscut or a cruising triradial laminate.

Personally, I would skip the 4 cabin 50 footer and get a 3 cabin version. All too often the 4 cabins include 4 heads and you'll find it a totally stupid setup when your wife has retired and you sail by yourselves or with just a couple of friends. I would only consider a 4 if it was two stern, one forward and the 4th cabin was a pullman style.

[Opie91]

Originally Posted by StuM

A boat is a three dimensional object so the volume etc increase as the cube of the length.

12 x 12 x 12 = 1728 m3
15 x 15 x 15 = 3375 m3

So a 15m boat is indeed twice the size of a 12 m boat.

And as Mystic38 says, everything on it is much larger, heavier and more expensive.
(sails, standing and running rigging, deck hardware, engines etc, etc)

Thank god boats aren't shaped like cubes

[jrbogie]

Originally Posted by Opie91

Thank god boats aren't shaped like cubes

yep, a fifteen meter beam calls for one hell of a wide slip. and that fifteen meter draft rules out a bunch of anchorages, huh?

[wayne.b]

Originally Posted by StuM

A boat is a three dimensional object so the volume etc increase as the cube of the length.

12 x 12 x 12 = 1728 m3
15 x 15 x 15 = 3375 m3

So a 15m boat is indeed twice the size of a 12 m boat.

And as Mystic38 says, everything on it is much larger, heavier and more expensive.
(sails, standing and running rigging, deck hardware, engines etc, etc)

===

You're doing the math a bit differently than I would but getting a similar result.

50 ft divided by 39 ft equals 1.282, so that becomes the scaling factor. 1.282 raised to the third power equals 2.107, a little more than double. That intuitively sounds about right to me.

[Zanshin]

The formula for computing the volume of a ship is quite different from the math presented here - for those interested check out pages 34/35 of "Principles of Yacht Design" by Lars Larsson & Rolf E. Eliasson. or refer to any internet data on "tonnage measurement". Basically you can't just extrapolate that an increase in length of x will result in a volume increase of y without knowing a lot more details.
What is true is that it feels like the boat is doubling in size. I went from 43 feet to 49 feet and felt that the size had doubled. Then going from 49 to 57 the same thing happened.
Doubling to volume of a boat doesn't mean you are going to be doubling the maintenance costs - considering that most of that interior volume is open space. Only certain things are going to be more expensive. The same watermaker is used on a 40 footer and on a 50 footer; they cost the same to purchase and to maintain. Likewise the galley will contain just one oven, and that is most likely going to be the same size. Generators don't always have to grow on bigger yachts.

[alansmith]

Sir, before biting the bullet make sure you do all the research you can get your hands on concerning licenses to charter, Coast Guard or equivalent licenses required for inspection and operation of a charter business, local business licenses, insurance costs with associated liability in case the poop hits the fan (a guest trips over the dorado box and breaks his wrist and sues your sorry arse because they had one too many vodkas). Now you have a charter business and must do the state and local accounting practices to keep track of the monies, maintenance costs, replacement of parts, and on and on. The boat must be kept pristine or the word gets out that "she is a dog" type of charter. Throw in advertising, photography, and maintenance of a web site.

Don't forget the fun of cooking for everyone, provisioning, cleaning the carnage of 4 or more people drinking, eating, and some vomit and poop stuff to deal with. Also you have to entertain them and be the "go to" person at all times. You are also responsible for running a charter ethically and a competent skipper. You have to deal with people trying to cheat you out of monies they are responsible for. Last second cancellations and you have already bought the provisioning. It goes on and on.

They say that chartering business is one of the toughest businesses there are. They say it for a good reason. They also say you can make a some money if you have scale. Which means you have to have a small fleet of boats. Maybe 5-10 boats to get that scale. It is no joke how hard these people work. Are you sure you want to work harder than you ever worked in your life...and now you are ready to retire? Also, is your wife willing and of the personality type that she is willing to jump into that role?

There are many blogs written by charter sailors. One of my favorites that I followed for sometime is Zerotocruising.com, check it out. You also need to sit down or correspond with some people who are in the business to get an idea of what is happening in the business area that you are planning on.

If you are doing this as a business strategy for handling the cost of a boat sit down with a certified public accountant and go over the business plan, revenue, costs, federal and state tax laws. You should know exactly what you are undertaking before the purchase of the boat. You have been advised....smile....

[TheThunderbird]

100%

A larger boat has many additional gear.

That gear must be better quality, and wears out faster, since strains are incomparable {on deck)
E.g. dyneema is a must on a 50footer, it costs 3x polyester
You need a 2nd AP
Battery charger will cost much more
Really, any details must be top quality on a large boat.

Look at a Swan deck, and tell me how many details alike you find around...

[StuM]

Originally Posted by Opie91

Thank god boats aren't shaped like cubes

OK, treat is as a sphere ( vol 4/3 Pi r^3)
12m boat = 6^3 x 4 /3 * 3.14 = 904 m3
15m boat = 7.5 ^3 x 4/3 * 3.14 = 1,766 m3

Same relationship. It doesn't matter what the shape or size, if all the proportions are the same, increasing one dimension by 25% (12m to 15m) will approximately double the volume/weight.

[Zanshin]

StuM - all proportions are not the same, as I've mentioned before with references. Hull shape and form don't scale when a boat grows in LWL, the shapes are more complex than simple box or spherical models allow.