Boat listing price vs offer vs actual sale price

[ranger58sb]

Originally Posted by LiveAboardTom

Thank you all. Getting the numbers for sold boats from another broker makes sense, Is that then a "buyers broker?"

Sort of.

A "real" buyer's broker would be under some minor obligation to you -- contract, hand shake, whatever -- whereas any ol' broker out there in the metaverse somewhere may or may not owe you squat. And also may not provide you with soldboats.com info, if there's nothing in it for him.

There's not really much downside if you arrange a buyer's broker for yourself and when you're looking at boats offered by other brokers. Usually the two brokers involved (and brokerage houses) split the commission, paid by the seller, and you don't see any difference in your actual purchase price.

Plus your buyer's broker -- assuming a good one -- can help you with other research, commentary on your target boat, etc. ("Assuming a good one" is key.)

The market has been a bit weird these last couple years; full price contracts have been common, often already in place before a listing even hits yachtworld. I've also read about bidding wars, where buyers have been paying over the ask. (We had opportunities to decline several of those, last year, guided by soldboats info.) Reading suggests that's now beginning to soften ever so slightly...

-Chris

[Finalee]

Do your research and know what it's Worth before making an offer. If you lowball on a boat you realy want you may have just eliminated yourself because you insulted the owner.
Just my opinion.

[zstine]

Originally Posted by LiveAboardTom

So, on a $100,000 boat can I offer $60,000 or would that get an automatic no? and I know there are variables to any offer but when someone lists a boat how much room do you think they have in their price?

A 40% drop in price! yes, I'd expect a swift NO and a kick in the a$$ and a broker or 2 who will no longer work with you.

if you as the buyer think the price is more than 20% higher than what you would pay, then you will likely not be able to come to an agreement with the seller. And that's assuming it is a buyer's market. while the market is softening, I'm not sure I would call it a buyer's market just yet.

keep in mind you can adjust price after survey. back in 2012 (buyer's market) the seller of my boat accepted an offer about 15% below asking and in the end, after survey negotiations, I paid a 23% discount from asking price and I pushed the sellers emotional limits. sorry... I don't think you can much more without making people upset with you and in today's market, you probably can't pull 23% off.

I sold that boat in 2020. seller's market. Any offer with more than 11% discount was rejected and I just told them my bottom "take it or leave it" price. asked $45k. my bottom price $40k with no reduction due to survey findings allowed. i got 40k fairlyquickly... in retrospect, I could have probably gotten my full $45k asking price but I'm happy with the quick sale and no renegotiating BS.

[Orion Jim]

Few sellers brokers are willing to split a commission.

[Stewie12]

A buyers broker is where you contract the broker to buy a yacht for you. Not a broker who is simply giving you information on selling prices.

[LiveAboardTom]

Thank you all again for the updates. I am in Los Angeles and the slip will be in Ventura. I am looking at boats locally as well as San Diego. There are a couple in the Bay Area but not sure they are worth the hassle.

If / when I make an offer I will find a local agent to rope in as a buyers agent. I have learned they can also help with finding surveyors, arranging a temp dock is needed, referrals for any works that might need to be done...

The boat I missed out on was an Island Packet 35. Second boat I saw and it took another ten or so to put it into perspcetive...

The rest that really tickled my fancy are all at the high end of my range, and for that I think I'll wait until I have an offer on my hosue to help figure out my budget. I will start paying for the slip August 1st but a couple months of that will not kill me, while I wait for the right boat.

Thanks again to everyone! Most helpful.

Tom

[BobHorn]

If I was asking 100 and you offered 60, there would be absolutely no response.

[macieknan]

Correct - brokers pay good money each year for access to soldboats database. The ones that would give you the info reasonably expect some of these leads generate new business.

Another great data point from soldboats is days on the market. Last year desirable models sold quicker and at little discount from the asking price. In 2010 few got offended at offers 20% below asking, in 2021 few buyers bought at more than 5% discount.

Seasonal and geographical market differences could help an intrepid buyer, and biggest news of all is near parity for EUR/USD these days.

If you look to spend minimum amount of money, look for boats that are older, neglected and in remote places. You kind of get what you pay for

[Bay Breeze]

we listed our boat at a fair price, comparable to others of same year and equipment and with the broker we had used to purchase. It didn’t sell, fortunately as we decided we wanted to move her from Florida to stay in Maine for summers.

When we got ridiculous low ball offers we did not counter offer. Frankly the negotiation tactic to meet halfway would have been closer to a workable deal. But the insult of trying to devalue the boat was not effective.

We expect about a 10% wiggle room on a reasonable asking price might work for both parties.

Www.shoalsailer32.blogspot.com

[Rumrace]

I’m going to trade or sell maybe this winter.
I’m going to ask 225. I think the boats really worth 160 and I’d walk away from a conversation under 210. The boat lists new bare bones 175. Fits your slip too.
Remain confused but boats have a bottom. Some have been seen below their bottom but rare. So a piece of junk you’ll have to become an expert on fibreglass diesels from lawn mowers winch springs old ropes stinky mattresses riggings ....
The big Aft Cabin C&C and Catalina.
The Jenneau Deck Salon was a special coach roof and cockpit on the Sun Odyssey hull. Most are two big for your slip but stunning Full beam aft cabins.

[Rumrace]

Jenneau eventually faded the two lines together. There are two which fit your slip about 10 years apart. They have a very open home like brightness to them with their oversized windows and kept up to a Sun Odyssey no worries.
With a Jeanneau there is no fun fur to collect dead skin or old sagging fabric or glued on wood strips Polished Epoxy bien

[jmschmidt]

"Market is what market is". A boat, house, car or pile of manure that sells for what some people thought was way too high a price just proved this old adage.

[MicHughV]

Don't forget "sales tax"...this nasty little surprise awaits you after negotiations are complete.
It's a long, lonely walk to the sales tax office to fork over your 7.5% of hard earned cash, that doesn't add zilch to your boats value.

[Rumrace]

Ewe taxes. Ugly word. Too many threads looking for first boat. I thought the OP was Europe not US for a minute.
In Canada Europe and US taxes on boats has been in a nasty trade war. And of course Beneteau and Jenneau closed the yacht factory and moved four US boat brands production to Poland because Europe had added a 25% tax on US boats and was moving it to 50%. I suppose Biden stopped the carnage less than 6 weeks ago but it’s not fixed.
Canada Japan and Europe formed a Free trade union during the heat of the trade war. It pretty much murdered the import copies of old brands support real US made products.
In Canada we can buy a European Boat tax tariff free. If we buy that European boat from the US at a inflated typical 10% add 9% trade tariff. So this broke exclusive rights overcharging game.
The turmoil globally has hit boats hard. One US boat entering France was taxed 1.2 million dollars 25% of its value.
The political gain action to attack other countries economy backfired as predicted. Just consider the Scarabs Wellcraft 4Winns US production of over 100,000 boats migrated to safe ground in Poland.
So now filling the void are fewer players driving up the value of used up to just plain silly prices. Boat production in the US has bottomed out. Canada’s boat makers suffered a similar death from free trade with US. Welcome to the bruise and abused club.
The average production 40’ boat went up minimum 10%. And all the gear. So new ends up being best value at least in Canada.
If you had a better budget I’d tell you to call IVT in san Diego and tell Ian to find your boat.

[MicHughV]

Buyer's market...seller's market ???....

I can just tell you what I see. Florida ICW is in my backyard.

In bygone days, there would be an endless stream of sailboats going both north and south
How many, well, I could not say as I was not counting them, but a lot, easily several dozen.

Fast forward to today. It's rare that I see a sailboat on the ICW these days. For sure there is the odd sailboat here and there, but not even close to bygone days.

Same goes for power boats, fishing boats. Not so long ago, ICW would be thick with boats....these days....even on weekends...it's a desert out there. As above, one does see the odd fishing boat here and there, but simple nothing like I've seen before.

High fuel prices? Exorbitant marine costs ? Covid, etc, ....who knows, but from where I'm standing, not much out there.

I could not say whether that drives boat prices up or down. I'm not in the market for a boat, so I don't keep tabs on that.

I can recall some many years ago, when Florida instituted this so-called " luxury tax" on boats ...1993 I think...and almost overnight, the entire boating industry ground to a halt.

I often drive around the neighborhood. I see fishing boats parked in driveways that haven't moved in months...years ????

My 2c is that the entire boating industry seems to be a standstill at the moment.