CALIFORNIANS: Where are you buying alcohol for your alcohol stove now?

[stevenhigbee]

If you are far enough south, why not drive across the border and buy cheap 95% ethanol at any drugstore in Mexico. It's usually non-denatured. I'm not sure if US customs will count it as spirits or not, since it does say "not for human consumption" on the label.


Otherwise I think I would distill my own.

[Montanan]

If obtaining a fuel type for your cooking or heating appliance is difficult to purchase [and / or expensive, which denatured alcohol is] in the local you reside, the simple solution is to change to a different cooking appliance.

If retailers don't desire to carry or sell a product don't over the issue.

Their reasons to not sell don't need to be logical or legal, they just are.

Protection from ozone pollution is a very valid reason to inhibit VOC emissions. The nature of volatile organic compounds are that they are also combustible and can be used as fuel / heating sources. When used for a combustion purpose VOCs due not invoke ozone production. It is hard to regulate products with multiple uses because of the adverse misuse and misusers muck up things for those that don't misuse the product or service.

Your intended use of a VOC as fuel for a stove is not adverse as to resulting in hazardous ozone production but the supply for your intended use is caught up inadvertently but consequently with the restrictions of the adverse uses.

I recommend that your simplify your life and move on from your frustration as there are easy alternatives. Don't try to head into the wind or against the current.

[coastalexplorer]

Is there a practical concern beyond pure personal choice for not wanting to burn Propane?

[singlespeed]

Prop 65 is not a static list. Originally it served a good purpose, removing harmful chemicals from the food supply and the environment.

New chemicals are being added all the time by the loony's in California's legislature. Ask the average Californian what Prop. 65 is and they will either shrug their shoulders or mention the small signs near business' front doors. Most would agree that it is only beneficial to sign makers and attorney's. There was a strong push to put coffee on the list (fortunately it failed)......that should tell you a lot. California represents such a huge market for many manufacturers that Prop. 65 warnings are appearing on most items sold in the U.S.. Last March I bought a screwdriver in Dallas that had a Prop. 65 warning because of the finish material on the wooden handle.

[Dsanduril]

Originally Posted by coastalexplorer

Is there a practical concern beyond pure personal choice for not wanting to burn Propane?

Propane explodes

(We cook with propane on our boat)

[redneckrob]

Originally Posted by singlespeed

Prop 65 is not a static list. Originally it served a good purpose, removing harmful chemicals from the food supply and the environment.

New chemicals are being added all the time by the loony's in California's legislature. Ask the average Californian what Prop. 65 is and they will either shrug their shoulders or mention the small signs near business' front doors. Most would agree that it is only beneficial to sign makers and attorney's. There was a strong push to put coffee on the list (fortunately it failed)......that should tell you a lot. California represents such a huge market for many manufacturers that Prop. 65 warnings are appearing on most items sold in the U.S.. Last March I bought a screwdriver in Dallas that had a Prop. 65 warning because of the finish material on the wooden handle.

But the list still doesn't include banning sale of denatured alcohol. Which happens to be the subject of this thread, not your thoughts on "loonies in California's legislature", as important as you may think that opinion is to interject here.

[skipmac]

Originally Posted by Dsanduril

Propane explodes

(We cook with propane on our boat)

Been using propane stoves safely for almost 40 years. Switched right after I almost set the boat on fire with "safe" alcohol.

Don't believe the myth that an alcohol fire is safely or easily put out with water. Had a burner blow out on our alcohol stove (which is almost impossible to tell since the flame itself is almost invisible) which dumped a cup or two of liquid alcohol on the stove top that was then ignited by another burner. Big dash of water just washed burning liquid down under the stove and into the bilge. Things got rather exciting for a while.

Using proper safety procedures and a safe installation propane is 99.99% safe and so much better as a fuel: much cheaper, hotter, readily available.

As Donald Street once said (tongue in cheek of course), I would rather be blown up all at once with propane that slowly tortured to death by alcohol.

[roverhi]

Skipmac had a problem with a pressure alcohol stove. Origo's don't have the problems that the pressure stoves have/had. The Origo's are really the safest fuel to cook with. Still has the problem with lower heat output than propane or kerosene. My new to me boat came with an alcohol stove and was pleasantly pleased with the heat output of the stove. Plenty of heat to boil water for coffee, etc. Not much of a cook so didn't use for long term cooking tasks, etc. Just don't try and boil a large pot of water to cook your lobsters in, btdt.

[Montanan]

Nothing new here regarding California's restrictions on consumer paint thinners and multi-purpose solvents, of which denatured and isopropyl are included as well as many others VOCs. They are banned as thinners and solvents and a distributor or seller is not able to discern what the intended purpose and actual use of the product will be, hence they discontinue the product because of its specified banned purpose. Yes VOCs can be combustibles / fuels but also other consumer products.

(Adopted March 6, 2009) (Amended June 4, 2010)(Amended July 9, 2010)
(Amended December 3, 2010)
RULE 1143. COnSUMER PAINT THINNERS & MULTI-PURPOSE SOLVENTS
(a) Purpose
The purpose of this rule is to reduce emissions of volatile organic compounds (VOCs) from the use, storage and disposal of consumer paint thinners and multipurpose solvents commonly used in thinning of coating materials, cleaning of coating application equipment, and other solvent cleaning operations by limiting their VOC content.
(b) Applicability
This rule is applicable to any person who supplies, sells, offers for sale, or
manufactures consumer paint thinners and multi-purpose solvents for sale in the District, as well as any person who uses or solicits the use of any consumer paint thinner and multi-purpose solvent within the District.

(d) Requirements
(1) Except as provided in paragraph (d)(2), no person shall supply, sell, offer for sale, manufacture, blend, package or repackage any consumer paint thinner or multi-purpose solvent for use in the District unless the
consumer paint thinner or multi-purpose solvent complies with the
applicable VOC content limits set forth in the table below:

did not copy the table.

(e) Administrative Requirements
(1) No person shall sell, supply, offer for sale, manufacture, blend, package,
or repackage for use in the District any “Flammable” or “Extremely
Flammable” Consumer Paint Thinner or Multi-purpose Solvent named, on
the Principal Display Panel as “Paint Thinner”, “Multi-purpose Solvent”,
“Clean-up Solvent”, or “Paint Clean-up”.

(3) For the purposes of paragraphs (e)(1) and (e)(2) a product is “Flammable” or “Extremely Flammable” if it is labeled as “Flammable” or “Extremely Flammable” on the product container, or if the product meets the criteria for these specified in title 16, Code of Federal Regulations, section 1500.3 (c)(6).

[skipmac]

Originally Posted by roverhi

Skipmac had a problem with a pressure alcohol stove. Origo's don't have the problems that the pressure stoves have/had. The Origo's are really the safest fuel to cook with. Still has the problem with lower heat output than propane or kerosene. My new to me boat came with an alcohol stove and was pleasantly pleased with the heat output of the stove. Plenty of heat to boil water for coffee, etc. Not much of a cook so didn't use for long term cooking tasks, etc. Just don't try and boil a large pot of water to cook your lobsters in, btdt.

Never used one myself but consensus does seem to be that the Origo stoves don't have the risks and problems of the old pressurized alcohol stoves. Also hear they might be a bit hotter than the pressurized version but I can't imagine the difference is dramatic.

For someone that cooks a lot propane is just so much more practical and dramatically cheaper. Not only does it take a lot longer to heat something with alcohol but due to a lower BTU value it takes a lot more of it as well AND it costs a lot more. Been a while so don't recall the exact dollar figure but recall spending a big chunk of my meager cruising budget restocking alcohol for the stove in the Bahamas.

[magentawave]

Originally Posted by redneckrob

But the list still doesn't include banning sale of denatured alcohol. Which happens to be the subject of this thread, not your thoughts on "loonies in California's legislature", as important as you may think that opinion is to interject here.

Originally Posted by Don C L

Oh yeah, ok, I'm talking to the Westmarine in Oxnard. I think Santa Barbara has it too.

I just called West Marine in Oxnard and Santa Barbara and you're right that both are still carrying it. I might be going up to Santa Barbara next week so that will work out. Thanks for mentioning it.

[Don C L]

So I have cooked on propane, pressurized alcohol and Origo. For me, on a smaller boat, Origo makes the most sense. On a larger boat you have more room for fancier meals, and it is much easier to store the tank in its own lazarrette with solenoid etc. so if I had a larger boat I'd probably opt for propane, but maybe not. Where I am and for just the local island jaunts I am doing, with alcohol close by (still, for now) the Origo is great.The drawbacks to alcohol are that propane is available everywhere and is relatively cheap, and alcohol, not so much, and that propane cooks things faster. The Origo is hot enough for all the cooking I do, and I'd never go back to pressurized alcohol personally. In fact if I was on a boat with pressurized alcohol I might just stick with cold soup and cold brew coffee! Now if you want to do a lot of baking or boiling pots of water for pasta or something, then, yes, I wouldn't recommend alcohol. But things like fish or eggs, or just heating up a can of chili, need very little heat for cooking, and with my Omnia stove top oven I'm baking bread too! just another 2 cents worth. and yes this has come up in other threads, but there are probably lots of new folks just tuning in.

[redneckrob]

Originally Posted by magentawave

"Thank you" for what? If you go to the Sunnyside website (which is one of the third party vendors listed when you search for denatured alcohol at www.Walmart.com) it clearly states "NOT FOR SALE IN CALIFORNIA." https://www.sunnysidecorp.com/produc...cf&b=s&n=834G5

Who is "assuming" and "insisting"?

You sir are both "assuming" and "insisting" that a vendor not selling something in CA is the same thing as that product being "banned" in CA. How about this, I donate $100 to a charity of your choice when you quote the law or rule that specifically banned the sale of denatured alcohol for stove fuel in CA as of now. Given your certainty that it exists, it should be easy for you to produce, right?

[Checkswrecks]

We have this problem with the big box stores (both Lowes and Home Despot) pulling MEK from their shelves.

Every local Sherwin Williams paint store and car paint supplier still has it, along with alcohol, acetone, etc, and usually in bigger volumes for less money.

btw - +1 for the Origo and personally preferring it over propane. It'll burn cheap vodka and rum if nothing else were around. Add a touch of water to denatured alcohol and you can see the flame.

[magentawave]

Originally Posted by redneckrob

You sir are both "assuming" and "insisting" that a vendor not selling something in CA is the same thing as that product being "banned" in CA. How about this, I donate $100 to a charity of your choice when you quote the law or rule that specifically banned the sale of denatured alcohol for stove fuel in CA as of now. Given your certainty that it exists, it should be easy for you to produce, right?

I addressed this in my previous comment but it's not there now so I either inadvertently deleted it before posting or a moderator edited it out because I used a naughty word to describe the state legislatures and governor.

Anywho, the only "certainty" I have is that merchants in San Diego are no longer carrying the stuff and when asked why they all said it was "banned" and/or was because of "prop 65." So, banned or not, or prop 65 or not - bottom line is that the stuff isn't available here like it was a month or two ago.