Composting toilet: rules, regulations, and "real life" use etc.?

[Mike OReilly]

For those of you who are peeved about the name “compost toilet”, why not go talk to the manufacturers or sellers.

Personally, I really don’t care what they are called. They work as advertised. I just reviewed the Nature’s Head website and marketing material. No where do they claim to produce veggie-ready compost. Likewise, I’ve yet to see anyone who uses these heads say they produce compost through their normal cycle.

So if you just object to the name, go complain to the makers. Otherwise, you’re just pissing into the wind .

BTW, I loaded your site HS. Colorado shows "grey (no bans or mandatory collection)”, so … I’m unclear what this means

[smj]

If I put my months worth of composting material in a trash bag and throw it in the dumpster will it turn to compost in the dumping site? I see quite a few places are trying to use the methane gas produced by the dumping grounds to generate electricity. Would the methane produced by my composting material be a “green way” to produce electricity?

[Delfin]

Originally Posted by hellosailor

john? if true?
Yes. As I mentioned, a friend in Colorado was looking for a way, any way, that they could avoid hiring a portasan for the summer months, on some wooded residential property they have there. Apparently the area can't pass a perc test, can't have a septic field (or their budget won't accomodate it yet) and they are not allowed to build an outhouse.
Like a number of other states, if you just take a fast look on the web Colorado ALLOWS composting toilets. What you may not see listed, is the fine print. A composting toilet, in the eyes of the EPA, discharges clean humus that yes, you can put in your vegetable garden. In fact they have a paper online that shows how you can build one with a long sloping discharge tube, such that it will take the sewage over 90 days before it is pushed out the far end, as clean COMPOSTED material.
The states that allow composting toilets vary in how they define those, but if it is a "bucket" they also conveniently often don't mention how that bucket must be treated after it has filled.
You can't dump an RV's blackwater tank into the street sewers either--but you won't find that listed in any state's motor vehicle laws, will you? "If true".
If it was in fact perfectly legal to empty an Airhead or other device into the street trash in ANY state...Gee, wouldn't it be stupid of those companies not to provide a list of the states where that was allowed? Or maybe, it would be embarrassing if they wound up with a list of only a dozen places...Ergh. Ooops.

https://compostingcouncil.org/state-...gulations-map/
Apparently there is a fairly long listing (with lots of notes like permits required, aquifer considerations, etc.) and a map available but be warned, you have to risk running Adobe Flash, the infamous malware delivery system, to load it.

The point being, we shouldn't have to debate or research this. The folks who make the product and sell the product and mis-name the product, are the folks who should have this information at their fingertips. Instead of referencing obscure US Code which says "Yeah, chamberpots are still legal, we call them TypeIII MSDs these days."

And a chamberpot can still be a great thing, those salesmen need to get on the program.

The city of Milwaukee has been selling composted human waste for many years as a product called Milorganite. Here is a description of what is entailed to make the product safe:

https://www.milorganite.com/using-mi...is-milorganite

I guess the 900 - 1200 degree heat does a pretty good job of making the waste garden ready. Not sure that is a feature of any "composting toilet". It's probably just me, but I feel weird throwing a 2 oz bag of dog poo into the trash. Not sure I could bring myself to toss 30 days worth of two adults solid waste, however attractively packaged, into the dumpster. In reading the blogs of terrestrial users of these units, they write about finding a discreet spot to dump a few gallons of urine - you know, where others won't have to smell it. Very considerate. They also talk about digging holes to bury the solid waste. That's bad enough on land, but sorry, on a boat I am just having trouble seeing how this is an improvement to flushing over the side - not inside marinas for heaven's sake, or even in harbors - but in the ocean where if the waste is treated, the pollution potential is nil. But 30# of poo in the dumpster? Really?

This isn't meant as a condemnation of desiccating toilets or their users. Just one person's critique of how this particular waste stream is disposed of in many cases and wondering how this improves the environment.

[dannc]

Originally Posted by Delfin

...
P.s. ok, I am correcting myself. From googling the topic, whether you can dump your composting toilet contents into a dumpster is up to local regulations. I guess that makes sense, given disposable diapers, doggie poo bags going into the same recepticals. Learning this, I will no longer rummage through dumpsters looking for lunch.

Don't forget landscapers using the dumpster to take a dump.

Once upon a time I lived in an apartment. One morning I took some trash to the dumpster, slid open the dumpster door and scared the poo out of the landscaper who was squatting inside taking a dump in the dumpster.

Given the amount of disposable diapers thrown into the trash, the contents of a "composting" toilet seem quite tame by comparison.

I know one of the composting toilet companies said you can add bleach to the bucket of "compost" to sterilize/sanitize if needed or wanted before tossing the contents into the trash.

Later,
Dan

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by Delfin

The city of Milwaukee has been selling composted human waste for many years as a product called Milorganite. Here is a description of what is entailed to make the product safe:

https://www.milorganite.com/using-mi...is-milorganite

I guess the 900 - 1200 degree heat does a pretty good job of making the waste garden ready. Not sure that is a feature of any "composting toilet". It's probably just me, but I feel weird throwing a 2 oz bag of dog poo into the trash. Not sure I could bring myself to toss 30 days worth of two adults solid waste, however attractively packaged, into the dumpster. In reading the blogs of terrestrial users of these units, they write about finding a discreet spot to dump a few gallons of urine - you know, where others won't have to smell it. Very considerate. They also talk about digging holes to bury the solid waste. That's bad enough on land, but sorry, on a boat I am just having trouble seeing how this is an improvement to flushing over the side - not inside marinas for heaven's sake, or even in harbors - but in the ocean where if the waste is treated, the pollution potential is nil. But 30# of poo in the dumpster? Really?

This isn't meant as a condemnation of desiccating toilets or their users. Just one person's critique of how this particular waste stream is disposed of in many cases and wondering how this improves the environment.

Delfin, from what you write, I assume you have little actual experience with these heads. Nor experience travelling in wilderness. That’s fine, but might I suggest that you either get more experience before passing judgement, or at least respect the experience of those of us who do use them.

No one is claiming these heads are necessarily environmentally better — not the users here, and not the manufactures. So I don’t know who you are addressing your query to…?

I stated rather succinctly what the advantages of these heads are. ‘Improving the environment’ is not on the list. And I believe my list is consistent with how most users view these heads. So again, I don’t know what you’re critiquing.

BTW, as a simple example; my month’s worth of material doesn’t weight anywhere near 30#. I’d estimate it’s more like 10# — at the most. Which illustrates the primary function of these heads; they desiccate the feces. The end product is nothing like raw feces — certainly dog poop bags or used diapers are far more raw, and most people have no issue dropping these into the garbage can. The end product of a compost cycle looks, feels and smells like potting soil.

[newhaul]

Originally Posted by Delfin

The city of Milwaukee has been selling composted human waste for many years as a product called Milorganite. Here is a description of what is entailed to make the product safe:

https://www.milorganite.com/using-mi...is-milorganite

I guess the 900 - 1200 degree heat does a pretty good job of making the waste garden ready. Not sure that is a feature of any "composting toilet". It's probably just me, but I feel weird throwing a 2 oz bag of dog poo into the trash. Not sure I could bring myself to toss 30 days worth of two adults solid waste, however attractively packaged, into the dumpster. In reading the blogs of terrestrial users of these units, they write about finding a discreet spot to dump a few gallons of urine - you know, where others won't have to smell it. Very considerate. They also talk about digging holes to bury the solid waste. That's bad enough on land, but sorry, on a boat I am just having trouble seeing how this is an improvement to flushing over the side - not inside marinas for heaven's sake, or even in harbors - but in the ocean where if the waste is treated, the pollution potential is nil. But 30# of poo in the dumpster? Really?

This isn't meant as a condemnation of desiccating toilets or their users. Just one person's critique of how this particular waste stream is disposed of in many cases and wondering how this improves the environment.

well its in a landfill not in our waterways like flush and forget systems .

[john61ct]

Originally Posted by hellosailor

john? if true?

What we are taking about here has nothing to do with land use health regs, nor with true composting toilets.

I believe there are strict laws about what you can dump into street water drains, nothing to do with motor vehicle laws, but that's also not relevant here.

The actual Q at hand is, if you take say a gallon or two of (yes only partially composted mix of poo and cuir, rarely any unpleasant smell) of output, in a heavy securely closed up plastic bag, and put it in a dumpster,

where is doing that in and of itself illegal?

Is it your claim that "the whole state of CO" is a factual answer?

I have not heard of any location in the US where that is illegal. Infectious biohazard waste yes, but not poo.

Yes these are **not** actually composting toilets, I agree, but can you set that nomenclature issue aside please for purpose of discussion, I am not aware of anyone here claiming they fully compost as per the EPA, and that is not relevant to the legal question above.

Nor is your distaste / disgust at the idea.

[john61ct]

"Separating toilets" is a better term for those who think there is a risk of anyone conflating with land-based EPA approved definitions in a marine / mobile context.

[Delfin]

Originally Posted by newhaul

well its in a landfill not in our waterways like flush and forget systems .

I agree that it is better for it to be in a landfill than floating around slip D29 at Cap Sante marina, but I still question whether the dispersed placement of an instance of human poo randomly in deep water is inferior to the concentrated waste contained in a landfill. There isn't really an option for land based waste not to place it in a landfill, unless you dump a few thousand tons in one spot in the ocean, like NYC does. But neither of these seems very ecologically rational to me. If the only option were for me to use a composting toilet, I think the most responsible method of disposal would be at 7 knots in water 200 feet deep with strong tidal flows, not dumping it in a dumpster next to a bag of kitchen waste.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8FryTj_5uSA

[john61ct]

Sure but sometimes it is not practical to head out that far for that one purpose.

A larger sealed staging container would work for some if you knew you'd be heading out soon anyway.

[Delfin]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

Delfin, from what you write, I assume you have little actual experience with these heads. Nor experience travelling in wilderness. That’s fine, but might I suggest that you either get more experience before passing judgement, or at least respect the experience of those of us who do use them.

No one is claiming these heads are necessarily environmentally better — not the users here, and not the manufactures. So I don’t know who you are addressing your query to…?

I stated rather succinctly what the advantages of these heads are. ‘Improving the environment’ is not on the list. And I believe my list is consistent with how most users view these heads. So again, I don’t know what you’re critiquing.

BTW, as a simple example; my month’s worth of material doesn’t weight anywhere near 30#. I’d estimate it’s more like 10# — at the most. Which illustrates the primary function of these heads; they desiccate the feces. The end product is nothing like raw feces — certainly dog poop bags or used diapers are far more raw, and most people have no issue dropping these into the garbage can. The end product of a compost cycle looks, feels and smells like potting soil.

I'm not passing judgment - I tried to make that clear. My only point is that whatever the weight of the package is, 3 to 4 weeks will not convert human feces to something that isn't essentially human feces. And I am sure you aren't suggesting that if you were to test what you say looks like potting soil that you would find it to be absent e coli and other intestinal flora. This study quantifies that, and you will note from the abstract that samples from this study were measured at 6 months of "composting", not a few weeks. But you are totally honest in not suggesting that this approach is better for the environment, but I am sure you can understand why others might have that higher on their list of priorities and wonder whether other approaches aren't more suitable.

[Delfin]

Originally Posted by dannc

I know one of the composting toilet companies said you can add bleach to the bucket of "compost" to sterilize/sanitize if needed or wanted before tossing the contents into the trash.

Later,
Dan

Now, there's a good idea....

[newhaul]

Originally Posted by Delfin

I'm not passing judgment - I tried to make that clear. My only point is that whatever the weight of the package is, 3 to 4 weeks will not convert human feces to something that isn't essentially human feces. And I am sure you aren't suggesting that if you were to test what you say looks like potting soil that you would find it to be absent e coli and other intestinal flora. This study quantifies that, and you will note from the abstract that samples from this study were measured at 6 months of "composting", not a few weeks. But you are totally honest in not suggesting that this approach is better for the environment, but I am sure you can understand why others might have that higher on their list of priorities and wonder whether other approaches aren't more suitable.

I installed a composter on my 24 because the marina said to be a liveaboard I needed either 15 gallons holding per person or a composting type head .
My 29 didn't have a holding tank so kept the composting no real desire to add a tank and loose the space.

[Delfin]

Originally Posted by newhaul

I installed a composter on my 24 because the marina said to be a liveaboard I needed either 15 gallons holding per person or a composting type head .
My 29 didn't have a holding tank so kept the composting no real desire to add a tank and loose the space.

Seems like you made a perfectly reasonable decision to install one. The only question is what the best way is to dispose of the contents. I like the idea of disinfecting it with bleach before disposal in a landfill.

[newhaul]

Originally Posted by Delfin

Seems like you made a perfectly reasonable decision to install one. The only question is what the best way is to dispose of the contents. I like the idea of disinfecting it with bleach before disposal in a landfill.

myself I have a second 5 gallon bucket that I empty the solids container into to allow full composting to happen prior to dumpstering it in a compostable plastic bag