Composting toilet: rules, regulations, and "real life" use etc.?

[fxykty]

Originally Posted by Kenomac

Mike,



Your poop is no greener than than anyone else’s, but of course that depends on what you’ve been eating...

I used to eat lots, I mean lots, of spinach and I didn’t notice any greening. But beetroots - now that’s an exciting colour!!! I was very young when I first saw that and started screaming, thinking that my insides were melting. 5 was a great age.

[john61ct]

Originally Posted by newhaul

https://www.amazon.com/Sani-Melt-Wat.../dp/B0019VUQ6M
Many others via Google just do water soluble laundry bags.
Otherwise you will get urn sized ones for burying human ashes.

Thanks, great to know.

Since the mixed output does have moisture, how long do you have for them to keep their strength?

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by Kenomac

Mike,

Your poop is no greener than than anyone else’s, but of course that depends on what you’ve been eating...

Well, I am Irish (or at least Irish descent) .

[owly]

Achieving true composting and killing pathogens takes time, but it IS a process that can be accelerated. It's not going to happen in a desiccating head. Moisture and nitrogen are needed, as well as the various microbes that do the job. 100% separation of liquids is counter productive as far as actual composting is concerned, but too wet doesn't work either. Accelerating the process is very doable, but it isn't going to happen in the primary collection vessel. Urine for nitrogen, sugar of some sort to promote bacterial growth, aeration, and an innoculant, as well as some degree of temperature control should at least in theory greatly accelerate the process.
What we need ideally is some serious research in to a suitable device and procedure for effective secondary processing. The device would probably be an insulated drum that was rotated at prescribed intervals. The process would involve the rotation of the drum of course, but also the addition of urine for nitrogen and to keep the proper moisture content, addition of a culture such as Sun Mar sells, and addition of nutrients such as sugars to promote bacterial growth. The composting process should increase the temp to the point where thermophylic bacteria thrive, and pathogens die out. PH may also be a factor.

This is a topic worthy of some serious research both for our use, and more importantly for use in areas that have problems with contamination of water. Our departments of health are dilligent enough that cases of cholera and typhoid are unheard of in the US and Europe. There were for example 23 cases of Cholera in 2010, all from exposure outside the country. Typhoid is a similar example, but more numerous.

Clearly the best way to fight such diseases in the US is to fight them elsewhere. What is most interesting by far is the fact that India, where the river Ganges is a veritable sewer, burial site, and a source of water for human consumption is not known for having outbreaks of these diseases. The answer to this anomaly is viruses known as phages, that attack specific bacteria, and exist in vast numbers in these waters. unlike antibiotics that indiscriminately kill every bacteria they come in to contact with, good or bad, these useful microbes are extremely specific. Research into this began in the early part of the 20'th century or perhaps a bit before, but was shoved aside for antibiotic development. With the increasing resistance to antibiotics, we are finally seeing this technology begin to take off..........


Please excuse the off topic aside....... the point is that the answers are often found by looking outside the proverbial box.


H.W

[newhaul]

Originally Posted by john61ct

Thanks, great to know.

Since the mixed output does have moisture, how long do you have for them to keep their strength?

john it depends on the amount of moisture but it will survive to the landfill where it will quickly ( relative term here ) dissolve.
Now I don't line my bucket with one also I don't line my composting heads collector either.
I empty the contents of my 5 gallon bucket into one just prior to disposal.

My composter holds a month and a half effluent solids from me . My 5 gallon bucket holds 3 emptyings of my head. So the most recent deposit in the 5 gal bucket is at a minimum a month old. I empty it prior to emptying my latest filled head container into the now empty bucket.

[newhaul]

Originally Posted by owly

Achieving true composting and killing pathogens takes time, but it IS a process that can be accelerated. It's not going to happen in a desiccating head. Moisture and nitrogen are needed, as well as the various microbes that do the job. 100% separation of liquids is counter productive as far as actual composting is concerned, but too wet doesn't work either. Accelerating the process is very doable, but it isn't going to happen in the primary collection vessel. Urine for nitrogen, sugar of some sort to promote bacterial growth, aeration, and an innoculant, as well as some degree of temperature control should at least in theory greatly accelerate the process.
What we need ideally is some serious research in to a suitable device and procedure for effective secondary processing. The device would probably be an insulated drum that was rotated at prescribed intervals. The process would involve the rotation of the drum of course, but also the addition of urine for nitrogen and to keep the proper moisture content, addition of a culture such as Sun Mar sells, and addition of nutrients such as sugars to promote bacterial growth. The composting process should increase the temp to the point where thermophylic bacteria thrive, and pathogens die out. PH may also be a factor.

This is a topic worthy of some serious research both for our use, and more importantly for use in areas that have problems with contamination of water. Our departments of health are dilligent enough that cases of cholera and typhoid are unheard of in the US and Europe. There were for example 23 cases of Cholera in 2010, all from exposure outside the country. Typhoid is a similar example, but more numerous.

Clearly the best way to fight such diseases in the US is to fight them elsewhere. What is most interesting by far is the fact that India, where the river Ganges is a veritable sewer, burial site, and a source of water for human consumption is not known for having outbreaks of these diseases. The answer to this anomaly is viruses known as phages, that attack specific bacteria, and exist in vast numbers in these waters. unlike antibiotics that indiscriminately kill every bacteria they come in to contact with, good or bad, these useful microbes are extremely specific. Research into this began in the early part of the 20'th century or perhaps a bit before, but was shoved aside for antibiotic development. With the increasing resistance to antibiotics, we are finally seeing this technology begin to take off..........


Please excuse the off topic aside....... the point is that the answers are often found by looking outside the proverbial box.


H.W

this has been studied rather extensively in the book humanure that I linked to earlier in the thread . Give it a read it will answer 90% of your questions.

[shepherdsond]

I have have a question for all you CH users. My head and holding tank needs over $1000 worth of work so this might be a good time to install a CH.

Most of our cruising is in the PNW with 2-4 adults but every now and then we do a 2-3 day offshore race with 6 crew on board. How would a CH handle this kind of use?

[Copacabana]

Originally Posted by shepherdsond

I have have a question for all you CH users. My head and holding tank needs over $1000 worth of work so this might be a good time to install a CH.

Most of our cruising is in the PNW with 2-4 adults but every now and then we do a 2-3 day offshore race with 6 crew on board. How would a CH handle this kind of use?

This is based on my 6 years of experience with a Nature's Head composting toilet.

Cruising with 4 people is just about the limit for a composting head. It works, but you'll be dumping and changing the composting medium perhaps every 2 to 3 weeks. One or two people is ideal, allowing you to go a month or perhaps longer.

I don't think 2-3 days with 6 will be a problem given the short time on board. If your boat sits idle during the week, it'll all dry out and you can keep going. If you go back to 2-4 adults using it daily after the race, you'll probably have to dump the contents soon after and start fresh. The dumping and refilling is very simple, easy and inoffensive and it shouldn't put you off getting a composting head. It takes a few minutes.

At least you'll have no bad odors from the composter- even with 6 aboard. It's amazing how there is no smell with composting toilets. However, the urine jug will have to be dumped overboard every day with that many people.

[Mike OReilly]

I’ll echo Copacabana here. These heads really are designed for two, perhaps three people full time. Your two to four means it will operate sub-optimally, which basically means you’ll have to take greater care to keep the balance right in the bin, and will be dumping more often. It will work, but it’s not really what these heads were designed to manage.

Short stints of higher usage won’t really make a big difference. In your race example, I’d probably start with a fresh bin of material (coir or peat) since you have the time to plan. After the race you can deal with it appropriately. If you can let it sit, then it will be fine for further normal use. Otherwise, just dump and start fresh again.

Nature’s Head, and I believe Air Head, states each cycle typically accepts 60 to 80 (ahem...) deposits before maxing out. For a typical couple this means going about a month between main-bin dumps. Your usage will likely demand more frequent dumps, but it can still work.

[davil]

sorry unrelated to the question but still within the main tittle,just about to go cruising,I remember the topic of urine treatment was discussed and is buried within the 300 or so postings.
I believe was mentioned the use of vinegar?
thanks

[newhaul]

Originally Posted by davil

sorry unrelated to the question but still within the main tittle,just about to go cruising,I remember the topic of urine treatment was discussed and is buried within the 300 or so postings.
I believe was mentioned the use of vinegar?
thanks

to stop the urine smell in the jug a teaspoon of sugar .
A good general cleaner is a vinegar water mix in a spray bottle

[john61ct]

Why would you want to treat it? Best (cheapest / easiest) to just get it off the boat asap.

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by davil

sorry unrelated to the question but still within the main tittle,just about to go cruising,I remember the topic of urine treatment was discussed and is buried within the 300 or so postings.
I believe was mentioned the use of vinegar?
thanks

The urine bottle does smell, but it’s only noticeable during dumping. Otherwise, no odour (at least not with Nature’s Head).

To combat the odour some people use a vinegar solution. Others use a tea spoon of sugar. I think there are other solutions like baking soda or various detergents. I’ve tried some of these, but didn’t find it made much difference. Maybe my (our) urine is different. Anyway, like I say, it’s only really noticeable during the dumping stage, so I just grin and bear it.

Our practice is to spritz the urine track with fresh water after each use. That keeps things smelling like roses . The bottles need cleaning after some months of use. It’s then that we employ a vineguar solution to give them a good cleaning.

[fxykty]

I’ve just completed the install of a Nature’s Head toilet. Put the recommended amount of coir in and made the first deposit. So far so good.

First part was removing the Jabsco manual pump toilet, 3-way valve, inlet hose (clean of course) and output to sea hose (not so bad, but very calcified). Two through hulls with wooden plugs in them, which I suppose we’ll get rid of and seal during our next haulout.

Then I removed the output hose to the holding tank. Also not so bad as I’d done a lot of flushing, but again the hose was about half diameter with all the calcification. Makes the hose pretty heavy too.

Next, the pump out house. Yuck!!!!! Despite having flushed copiously from the deck fitting their was still lots of brown guck in the u-bend where it turned to go into the bottom of the holding tank. Sigh, into the bilge went about 2 litres of brown stinking guck.

Final hose was the pair of holding tank flush/macerator hoses to their own through hull - this is now the third through hull that I closed off and can remove in the future. No guck in those hoses.

Then disconnected the macerator pump (handy to have a separate 12v circuit that I can use for the composting toilet vent fan) and got that off the wall. The holding tank is ready to come out! Put some plastic bags on the three outlet pipes and took that puppy off the boat. Phew. Lots of new space too that we’ll turn into a cupboard for TP, spare coir, and whatever else makes sense under the washing machine.

Cleaning the bilge was a PITA but having a ready input of seawater to flush did help. Took about 4 rotations of water (first 3 salt and the final fresh) to clean and disinfect the bilge. It’s good to have audio alarm when the automatic bilge pump is running but the noise does get tiresome.

OK, everything is out and cleaned. The actual installation was pretty easy, especially as we had more than enough space for the NH. The vent hose had to be reduced in diameter and I took it to the holding tank vent fitting in the side of our hull. I couldn’t use the bigger pump out fitting as recommended because it’s on our deck just forward of the mast and would have to be closed when on passage.

We had the macerator pump circuit to use for the ventilation fan - the fun part of that job was connecting the 22 gauge fan wiring to the 10 gauge wire that was used for the macerator pump. Several step ups of wire gauge and their respective connectors made it work, plus I replaced the 30A fuse with 5A.

[Mike OReilly]

Looks good fxykty. Removal of the existing head system is definitely the hardest part of the whole process. I’m sure you’re going to love all the freed up space .