Diesel Heater Advice

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by Leighpilot

That’s why both the exhaust and the combustion air intake are supposed to be located outside the living areas.

clearly thats the case for the combustion exhaust lol

Ive not seen a yacht with the intake taking air from outside the yacht they all just take air from the compartment they are installed in, this includes combustion and heating air

I know eberspacher state that you should not draw combustion air from the "living areas", but sure the whole yacht is effectively a single room !!

[newhaul]

Ok there is some confusion obviously so
There are 2 closed loops of air on a diesel furnace. The combustion air intake and exhaust ( both should be from outside the living space.

Then there is the room air that is being heated. They both should be located in the living space the heated air should have its longest run ( as far away from the unit .) The " cold " air return should be located low and close to the unit so as to create a good circulation pattern for the warm air in the space to minimize cold spots .

Drawing your cold air to be heated from outside the living space is just asking to suck in combustion exhaust gasses from some source.
And co poisoning is something you might not wake up from .

[wingssail]

Originally Posted by newhaul

Ok there is some confusion obviously so
There are 2 closed loops of air on a diesel furnace. The combustion air intake and exhaust ( both should be from outside the living space.

Then there is the room air that is being heated. They both should be located in the living space the heated air should have its longest run ( as far away from the unit .) The " cold " air return should be located low and close to the unit so as to create a good circulation pattern for the warm air in the space to minimize cold spots .

Drawing your cold air to be heated from outside the living space is just asking to suck in combustion exhaust gasses from some source.
And co poisoning is something you might not wake up from .

There are definately some differences of opinion in this thread regarding that point (no I don't mean your comment about CO poisoning).

[Cpt Mark]

Originally Posted by goguygo

Thorough info on Chinese diesel heaters. I believe there are 14 episodes now.

Yes. This guy is the bomb. Made me into a believer of chinese heaters and safety. Watch the videos, especially the installation ones and where he bench tests them before install.

You'll need a real exhaust outlet. Double wall SS and buy SS exhaust clamps too.

[carstendenmark]

Wow, this heating thread is becoming interesting !

The OP wants heating in Bermuda, so he and his misses do not have to wear thick wool sweaters in the cabin during the (few) "cool" days and nights.
Then he should go for a 2KW, with the (damp) combustion air intake from the cabin, and the exhaust outlet through the far stern. Cabin air intake from the mid cabin ducts.

In cooler areas of the world, 5KW or higher system, combustion air from the outside, at the bow at best, and exhaust air at the stern.
In both cases, two CO warning devices (if one fails) in the cabin, and a regular service of the furnace burner is of high importance, of course.

Does these solutions sounds right to you, guys ?

Two other issues :
1) Are there any good (and available) electronic indicators of the CO and/or CO2 content of the exhaust gasses available for "common" use ?
This could prevent, that some might forget to clean the burner (or "afterburn" it) in time.
2) the choice of outside intake air and cabin air to the furnace could be solved by a "switch" intake valve of some kind ?

[Pete7]

Originally Posted by carstendenmark

Wow, this heating thread is becoming interesting !

In cooler areas of the world, 5KW or higher system, combustion air from the outside, at the bow at best, and exhaust air at the stern.
In both cases, two CO warning devices (if one fails) in the cabin, and a regular service of the furnace burner is of high importance, of course.

Does these solutions sounds right to you, guys ?

Two other issues :
1) Are there any good (and available) electronic indicators of the CO and/or CO2 content of the exhaust gasses available for "common" use ?
This could prevent, that some might forget to clean the burner (or "afterburn" it) in time.
2) the choice of outside intake air and cabin air to the furnace could be solved by a "switch" intake valve of some kind ?

Nope, doesn't sound right, but that's just my opinion, as you say other have different view . However, I am not permanently fitting the combustion air inlet anywhere near the bow, kind of wet up there.

A switch you say? oh lordy, please lets keep it simple. This is a 2kw air heater.

However, I agree with the need for good quality exhaust hose. Ours is Webasco, fitted before the Chinese heater became popular at some expense, but worth checking a cheaper version. Also there is a cloth sock like tube to insulation the exhaust. We bought 1m and it was enough to turn over and double back so there is two layers over the exhaust pipe. Handy if a fender touches it in the cockpit locker.

Pete

[goboatingnow]

My own view is that combustion air should be drawn in from outside , but I’ve seen an awful lot of installs where that was not done. Heated air should be drawn from the living spaces

A good exhaust skin fitting is needed , and a stainless steel exhaust with good lagging is needed ( double walled isn’t necessary imho ) and always make sure nothing comes in contact with the exhaust run.

Note I’ve never bothered with the input or output exhaust silencer
( and eber never included it as stAndard in the boat kit )

Other then that they work work great always give them a run at full power every now and then

[DefinitelyMe]

Originally Posted by Pete7

Just looking at the photo on Amazon and it appears to have a silencer (muffler) in the exhaust. If this is a vehicle kit then the silencer probably has a small hole in it to drain water vapour off caused when the exhaust cools down. Not a problem in a vehicle when its mounted outside the cabin, the exhaust fumes can escape and not contaminate the vehicle.

However, you may want to check it very carefully or skip it completely to be safe for use on a yacht.

Pete

Thanks for this Pete. Very valuable advice. Maybe I'll just skip the silencer altogether. I'm a fan of minimising complexity wherever possible and it sounds like there's no problem doing that here.

[DefinitelyMe]

Originally Posted by ghrt

That heater you've bought: either weld the muffler or buy another already sealed. Install it vertically so it doesn't hold any water. If necessary, you may want to install a dedicated drain at the lowest point of exhaust line.


Both Chinese 2kw and 4/5/8kw heaters have almost the same minimum power (800w vs 900w), what differs it's the maximum (2kw vs approx 4kw) and their dimensions (body and pump).


Read carefully the infos on Facebook group, it's very usefull


IMHO 800w is way too much for a single cabin. You may want the Afterburner kit.


I've also done one install and final costs with all the accesories was 4x than installer with his own kit, like yours (longer exhaust, longer warm air duct, fiberglass web, s/s clamps, through hull, special sealing high temp silicone and some other little bits).

Interesting (and a bit of a shame) regarding minimum power. But that's ok. I can always open hatches to regulate. In fact I'm hoping that this heater will improve ventilation in general by encouraging us to open things rather than live inside a sealed box when it's chilly.

Sounds like coking is a major issue with these things. I'll run it on kerosene and run it on full every now and then. Hopefully that will do the trick.

[wmcunninghamii]

An excellent thread. I am doing more winter cruising in Norcal where evening temps get down into the 30s. Not freezing but cold enough to make getting out of my down sleeping bag a very unappealing process. I will often jump up, turn on the propane tank and fire up a stove burner just to take the chill off in the morning. I never, ever do this in the evening when there is any chance of falling asleep. I bundle up, but there is always some part of me that's cold.

Anyway, now that diesel units are available for much much less money I am very interested. I watched the videos produced by the Australian fellow and now feel I have a masters degree in diesel heaters. Boy, does he do a thorough job!

I wish he had shown his power consumption on the 5KW unit at low setting. Although the 5KW is probably overkill for my Freedom 30, I leave the companionway open with a canvas cover for privacy. The net result is a lot of ventilation via the companionway around the edges of the cover. I am OK wasting a little heat as a result. I suspect a 5KW will heat my boat on low setting even with the companionway vent.

I do wonder what the risk is related to exhaust (out the transom) being pulled back under the dodger and into cabin when anchored in any significant wind. I know when I am motoring into wind I am definitely able to smell a bit of exhaust under the dodger due to the slightly lower pressure in this area within the slipstream of the boat. No big deal when awake but sleeping? Does anyone have any thoughts on this? I would ask the same question re running the unit at a marina where you might be tied up stern to wind.

It may be the heater exhaust volume is so small (compared to my Yan 2gm20 that this is not an issue??

On the venting of the unit. I would plan the combustion exhaust through the upper transom. Combustion intake from the lazarette where the unit will be installed and heated air outlet and return well separated but located low in the cabin. Does this sound right?

[Lost Horizons]

Originally Posted by wmcunninghamii

I do wonder what the risk is related to exhaust (out the transom) being pulled back under the dodger and into cabin when anchored in any significant wind.

It happened to me once when the tidal current positioned the boat transom to wind. I could smell diesel fumes in the cabin. CO detector did not complain. The hatches under the dodger were crack open, which is the reason. At that time cockpit enclosure were not in place. With the enclosure or closed deck hatches should not be an issue. Was not the last time in similar conditions.

[wmcunninghamii]

Originally Posted by Lost Horizons

It happened to me once when the tidal current positioned the boat transom to wind. I could smell diesel fumes in the cabin. CO detector did not complain. The hatches under the dodger were crack open, which is the reason. At that time cockpit enclosure were not in place. With the enclosure or closed deck hatches should not be an issue. Was not the last time in similar conditions.

Thanks for feedback. I figured this was inevitable. Sounds like the CO concentration was fairly low otherwise the detector would trigger.

Could you tell me where you located the combustion intake for your unit?

[Lost Horizons]

Combustion intake is in the laz, where the heater is located. Air intake (to be heated) from the salon, located at the bulkhead separating salon and laz.

[wmcunninghamii]

Originally Posted by Lost Horizons

Combustion intake is in the laz, where the heater is located. Air intake (to be heated) from the salon, located at the bulkhead separating salon and laz.

Excellent! That is my plan too re the combustion intake.

Heated air intake will be in my aft cabin with heat output in main cabin/salon. Mind you the F30 is a small boat so the heated air gozinta and the gozouta will be about 10 feet apart.

Are you happy with heater performance?

[mitiempo]

Originally Posted by wmcunninghamii

Heated air intake will be in my aft cabin with heat output in main cabin/salon. Mind you the F30 is a small boat so the heated air gozinta and the gozouta will be about 10 feet apart.

Keep in mind that heating inside air will not reduce moisture.

Heating cooler, dryer air from outside will reduce moisture.